Wow!
I still don't know how to feel about this.
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the forces opened fire at mourners at a funeral for those who died in the last three days. 15 people are dead...at least. This happened in Benghazi
Wow!
I still don't know how to feel about this.
The devaluation of the human world grows in direct proportion to the increase in value of the world of things. -Karl Marx
Of more value is that you understand and learn to not support your security on your clothes because if you lose everything then what are you left with if all you have is only decorations? What a shame. It surely sounds sad like a condemnation that you base your life on only material shit. Nothing special can be purchased. As the little prince says, “What is essential is invisible to the eye.” - Cultura Profetica [translated by me]
I don't see how there's ambiguity in this situation...judging from what little info is out there, Gaddafi is waging war against the Libyan people.
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
now lets see how reliable those mercenaries will be when it will be clear gadafi will no longer be able to pay them.
WHY kléber, WHY!!!!!!!
I saw some a picture of some of them holding the monarchy-era flag on the yahoo page
That's the colored flag with the star and crescent symbol. Unless these protesters can make it nationwide though, they'll get choked out by the repressive state. Is there any indication of action in Tripoli or elsewhere?
Last edited by Red Commissar; 20th February 2011 at 03:11.
There was a woman with her face pained in those colours too on the BBCNews page. Larger image seems to be gone...
They'll be wanting all trace of Gaddafi gone... can't blame them really, he's totally fucking insane if he's allowing the mortaring of protesters.
'Detente is peace, love, and more dank ass medals for me' - Brezhnev
Yeah, Qaddafi is nuts and delusional. I just wish some of them were not using imagery associated with the Libyan monarchy though, that'll be something that can be turned against them as the regime attempts to discredit them.There was a woman with her face pained in those colours too on the BBCNews page. Larger image seems to be gone...
They'll be wanting all trace of Gaddafi gone... can't blame them really, he's totally fucking insane if he's allowing the mortaring of protesters.
this flag is called the liberation flag, and was the flag established after the fall of the king. then, kadafi put the green one instead.
WHY kléber, WHY!!!!!!!
Huh? I thought the Red-Black-Green with a star and crescent was the monarchy flag. I can see it as a "liberation flag" in so much that it was the first flag of an independent Libya following colonization. The flag after the king was thrown out was one typical of Arab nationalist/republican flags:
Then an eagle was added when Qadaffi tried to associate with other Arab nationalists in a union:
The current green one was put in 1977, some eight years after Qadaffi became leader after his break with Arab nationalism and tried to push his "Islamic Socialism" or w/e he sugar coated it as.
Last edited by Red Commissar; 20th February 2011 at 04:43.
heavy use of state violence against protesters basically delegitimizes the claims of Gaddhafi to be a revolutionary. If he really cared about his people, he'd apologize for the protest deaths and retire.
As it stands now the situation is highly confusing and fighting has been going on all through the night.
Twitter reports that there are at least 500 people killed according to the central hospital. This number is not independently confirmed but it has been confirmed that women and children have been amongst the dead and injured.
More troops are confirmed to have entered Benghazi and Tobruk. And it has also been confirmed the army uses anti aircraft bullets on protestors on the ground.
Also security forces are rumoured to go into hospital and arrest and/or execute doctors.
THe Al-Fahdil brigade building is supposed to have been taken....and it is reported that Benghazi is in protesters controll...but there is still fighting going on and as I said..more troops are comming into the city.
Snipers are reported to be everywhere and water, power and gas have been turned off.
People have armed themselves....as is evident from this video: http://yfrog.com/ekonez
But the question is if they can and will be effective.
The problem with twitter is that it is highly unreliable as a news source. One person posts somethig and another retweets...all too soon everybody tweets it and its seen as fact....not everybody knows the right words to indicate what is happening or what kind of ammunition is used.
edit: confirmed there are now massive protests in Tripoli.
Mainstream press are reporting a massacare, more than 200 killed by machinegun fire and snipers.
Telling how fast the 3th positionist lybia regime is dropping its "socialism" in favor for its fascism when threathend.
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
Ok...here is what I understand so far.
There is much confusion about who protests where. It seems to be the case that pro- and con- Gadaffi protests are orchestrated simultaniously.
As it now seems the protests in and around Tripoli are pro-Gadaffi. It is these protests Gadaffi attended (in reference to the OI thread).
In the east in Benghazi, Tobruk and Misurata the protests are anti-Gadaffi.
There seems to be a split between the North-west and East in the country considering popular opinions....that creates a possibility for the government to start rumours circulating about the nature of the protests. As we have seen in Tunesia and Egypt they try to blame foreign agents for the "riots". This is succesful in the northern part of the country which largely agrees with the current government.
However....religious leaders and tribal elders in the north have condemned the killing of civilians by the government and by government supporters. Stating this is against God.
Rumoured is that there will be, or currently are, also anti-Gadaffi protests in the North which are hampered by severe security presence in the cities.
Up until now the government cuold count on support of the tribal elders and leaders. Unfortunately there are increasing (UNCONFIRMED) reports of rapes and sexual assaults committed by security forces and pro-government supporters. As I am informed this will mean that if there are tribal women amongst the victims of these assaults the tribes will not support Gadaffi much longer seeing as how this now becomes a question of tribal honour...envoking rights orf revenge.
If the tribal support for Gadaffi stops then he will have an increasing narrow support base and these tribes ARE armed...and WILL use force. Or so I am told.
update: Protests in Libya are now live at Al Jazeera
"Ideas do not need weapons, if they can convince the great masses." - Fidel Castro
[FONT=Verdana]some amateur leftist songs written by me: Brand new one: TOUR DE MARXISM , Stalingrad battle song , Greet us in Havana, Bolshevik Girl
cover stuff: [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Partisan (Leonard Cohen), Working class Hero (John Lennon)[/FONT]
But what will be the outcome? If the people lose, then people died for nothing and social control increased. If the people win and establish another oppressive system, then there was loss of life for nothing too.
If you like to be on the side of struggle, that's fine, but make sure the goal of the struggle is something you want.
The devaluation of the human world grows in direct proportion to the increase in value of the world of things. -Karl Marx
Of more value is that you understand and learn to not support your security on your clothes because if you lose everything then what are you left with if all you have is only decorations? What a shame. It surely sounds sad like a condemnation that you base your life on only material shit. Nothing special can be purchased. As the little prince says, “What is essential is invisible to the eye.” - Cultura Profetica [translated by me]
I'm pretty sure that 1) the revolution failing, and 2) another form of oppression arising in a successful revolution's wake has been the reality for, like, all of human history. That doesn't really stop the left from supporting uprisings, though.
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
Please someone sticky this and make it the official Libya topic for news feed.
To all those of you who doubt these revolutions, never bet against the people, you'll end up losing, because the people always wins. Even if one Libyan survives all this, this is a win. So remove that negative energy and start operation optimism
We have on this earth what makes life worth living:
On this earth, the Lady of Earth
Mother of all beginnings and ends
She was called Palestine.
Her name later became Palestine
My Lady, because you are my Lady, I deserve life
Yeah, we're talking about a regime here that is by no means democratic nor really has anything to do with socialism. They should be criticized whatever happens and "being in touch with the people" in cases like this usually just mean plain populism, designed to keep the administration still the administration instead of actually trying to fulfill the ~will of The People~ and it would be fucking sad for a socialist to expect a dictator to do that.
It is pitch dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
The BBC is reporting that the protesters have taken control of much of Benghazi, and Gaddafi's son is to address the nation tonight.
