Tell him that the USSR was never socialist and that communism is a process.
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I have heard right wing Capitalists say that in the Soviet Union the small Communist
I have heard right wing Capitalists say that in the Soviet Union the small Communist Party elite had all the money wealth and power and that there was no real income equality because of this elite how do Communists answer this Capitalist claim ?
Tell him that the USSR was never socialist and that communism is a process.
It's just exaggeration of a problem that, while it did exist, was far from being anything serious. At least people in the Soviet Union could live a decent life without fear of losing their job or not having enough money to buy food. In the west there are far more problems with society and no one even bothers to take notice of them.
It's folly to ignore this flaw in the post-Stalin Soviet Union. Obviously the problems are much greater in a capitalist state, but that's because nepotism and inequality are inherently part of capitalism. It shouldn't exist in a society that claims socialism, and moreover, it was a symptom of the emerging revisionism and abandonment of proper Marxism-Leninism in the CPSU.
Failing to pay heed to the flaws of the Soviet Union will lead to suffering its fate for any emerging socialist state - this is why almost all active revolutionary groups (CPUSA need not apply) in the world take an anti-revisionist stance, and remain critical towards the direction the USSR took during the Khrushchev era.
tradeunionsupporter, I seriously doubt you're ever going to read this (it seems like you never come back to a thread you've posted on here), but if you do, I really think you could learn a lot from just reading some of the discussions we have on this board, instead of just making these threads.
Economic corruption was slim to none. Ask them to back it up? Show some examples of a communist politician driving an Aston Martin into his 10 acre mansion? They can't find it because it never happened. I've heard a capitalist tell me that Mao lived a lavish life with many prostitutes and had several castles all to himself. Show me proof?
I can however attest to the fact that billionaires live rather lavishly in capitalist countries while the people starve, and that political corruption is rampant in Latin America, and that politicians constantly embezzle money. And for those who want an example ask them to see: Alberto Fujimori of Peru who stole millions from the treasury and went to live in Japan.
“How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?” Charles Bukowski, Factotum
"In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining... We demand this fraud be stopped." MLK
-fka Redbrother
The person I was talking to was saying that the Communist Party Learders lived in lux
The person I was talking to was saying that the Communist Party Learders lived in luxury while the people did not here is my opinion since the learders make the laws and serve the people I think they should of lived in luxury.
We don't agree. According to law, people in the government were supposed to be paid only as much as someone like an engineer or a scientist. Of course this law was casually ignored.
Different people think different things about the USSR but all will acknowledge this inequality, and none of us will say it was good or justified.
We will however point out that, while the nomenklatura did live better than the average worker, shit didn't really start getting ridiculous until, (I THINK) around Gorbachev's rule.
But, I like to take the Left-Communist position and look at the USSR from about like 1919 on as a Capitalist country with a capitalist mode of production.
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
Okay, our dearest tradeunionsupporter...all of your posts seem to involve you talking to right-wing people about socialism, and it seems that you never know how to defend socialism against any criticism. Even the simplest criticism. So, for the mean time, can I please request, on behalf of the socialist movement, that you cease and desist? Refrain from talking to right-wingers about socialist until you can actually act as a semi-decent spokesman, because at the moment, it seems that you're not portraying us in a particularly positive light, particularly when saying things like:
...and you're sure you're a socialist?
The Soviet elite lived a lot better than the Average Boris. They had big cars
With drivers, large state apartments and houses in the country.
They had special stores with no lines to buy things and am assortment of luxury goods bought with hard cash. Party members were allowed to travel within the Soviet Union on special passports and often even allowed to travel outside the Soviet Union.
And to top it all off the Soviet elites even had special cemeteries where the elites had a marble likness of themselves over their graves so their statue could hang with the statues of their homeboys forever. (Seeing one of those graveyards is a real "what the fuck is this?" moments.)
Of course there was a downside:
+ YouTube Video
Last edited by Bud Struggle; 30th January 2011 at 17:21.
BOURGEOIS CAPITALIST IMPERIALIST AMERICAN LIES!!!
Actually, I think you're confused, Bud. The Soviet subjects, I mean glorious proletariat, didn't want these big cars, because they already had the finest cars known to man, which they realised could not be improved in any way...
PERFECTION
doesn't require change
Are some socialists seriously going to let anything and everything be said about the eastern bloc just because it didn't have working class power? I mean jesus fuck would you let someone say Iran is going to attack the US? Because it's alright to say that 'cause Iran isn't socialist?
I'm sick of this socialist spinelessness.
OP: Party bureaucrats did live more luxurious lives then the average person, yeah. That's totally true. But that doesn't mean there wasn't generally income equality, there clearly was a general income equality in the USSR.
I 100% agree. I'm no fan of the USSR, but some of the things that are said about it are ludicrous.Originally Posted by Zeekloid
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
Actually I'm pretty sure that their cars were owned by the state and not owned personally and the politburo all lived in one huge apartment block.The Soviet elite lived a lot better than the Average Boris. They had big cars
With drivers, large state apartments and houses in the country.
However, I did know one of the Chinese communist party members daughters, a real horrible [add reactionary expletive here] she used to come in where I used to work I remember she spent about £4,000,000 in one year and had been on a student visa for about 10 years and I'd bet any money she'd been to very few classes in that time. Really made me sick to see people like her throw away money like that compared to the conditions most of the Chinese people have to live in.
Better question....Why talk to right wing capitalists?
Watcfh the video I posted it will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about that apartment block.
Talking to and learning from people of different beliefs is never a bad thing.Better question....Why talk to right wing capitalists?
You should try it one day (the learning part).
Up to a point. Some people you just have no common ground with and that makes conversation pointless.
You can find common ground with anyone, I think. Depends if those involved want to or not, though.
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
I dont know...Anyone economically right of social democrat if they actually understand their position and its not just going along stupidly with what they have been thought I dont have much love for.
Maybe its do with understanding...I can understand why you like Left Communism, or maybe not you but why a person would, and though I think its a bit naive and simplistic I also think its reasonable, and has humanity's best interests at heart. But why would some one support out and out capitalism?
I admit that I have hatred for Zionists because the only reason I can think of that people would support Zionism is racism....Same with capitalism...The only reason I can think of someone supporting it is out and out fuck everyone else greed.
