Once again, proof that the US is FAR left of the establishment

[RGacky3]

This entire thread is a cross between wishful thinking and a bade joke.

Well thanks for your insight and facts.

The poll was a piece of fluff conducted in about as unscientific manner as possible.

How was it done in an unscientific manner?

I support highter taxes for the rich--does that make me a radical.

It makes you more progressive than the establishment.

I also would like to live in Narnia--does that make me a radical?

Nothing to do with anything.

I would suggest that the OP actually READ THE POLL before he post threads on it.

Done, again, this is one of many.

Telephone poll Could suggest response bias because you wanted to sound nice to that sexy voice over the phone.

Do you know how most polls are done?

having elites forced to do a respectable legislative job for the will of the people have worked in the past in many civilisation,

THe key word there is "FORCED."

the roman republic, before it became an autocratic system was a pretty good at the time, but ultimately, when the senate took over and designated their homeboy to rule the show, it was the begining of the end.

A Good system according to what standard? Do you know how that system worked? It was'nt democratic at all, it was an autocratic system the whole time.

[ComradeMan]

How was it done in an unscientific manner?

Well for a start the selection of questions were classical examples of how not to ask questions on a balanced poll- they were completely loaded. CultofAbeLincoln posted a sample and from what I saw they would not be taken seriously for statistical analysis.

Do you know how most polls are done.

Yeah, like this and that's why I don't trust them very much.

[#FF0000]

Yeah I think it's safe to say this was a hella dumb poll.

[RGacky3]

Well for a start the selection of questions were classical examples of how not to ask questions on a balanced poll- they were completely loaded. CultofAbeLincoln posted a sample and from what I saw they would not be taken seriously for statistical analysis.

That one specific question that this thread was about, what was wrong with that one?

Yeah, like this and that's why I don't trust them very much.

Then what do you trust to guage public opinion?

[ComradeMan]

That one specific question that this thread was about, what was wrong with that one? Then what do you trust to guage public opinion?

Gauging is one thing, claiming absolute truth is another one- i.e. proof.

[danyboy27]

THe key word there is "FORCED."
.

by the general will of those who vote him in to do the administrative job.
no matter how decentralised a system could become, you need people to manage stuff, people who should be accountable. Elite or not, somebody have to do this.

A Good system according to what standard? Do you know how that system worked? It was'nt democratic at all, it was an autocratic system the whole time.

false, it wasnt an autocratic system the whole time. For the first 100 year or so of the republic, there where general assemblies, laws where voted by those assemblies and the people had to dirrectly vote on laws that would come in effect. Even the Senate who was the elite wasnt able to control everything beccause a certain number of senator where plebian and they dirrectly worked for the people.

i consider that i was a good system if you look up at how things was during those time in other places of the world.

I am not claiming that the roman republic was the best system at the time, but it sure did the job for a hundred year or so before it was replaced by an autocracy.

[ComradeMan]

by the general will of those who vote him in to do the administrative job.
no matter how decentralised a system could become, you need people to manage stuff, people who should be accountable. Elite or not, somebody have to do this.



false, it wasnt an autocratic system the whole time. For the first 100 year or so of the republic, there where general assemblies, laws where voted by those assemblies and the people had to dirrectly vote on laws that would come in effect. Even the Senate who was the elite wasnt able to control everything beccause a certain number of senator where plebian and they dirrectly worked for the people.

i consider that i was a good system if you look up at how things was during those time in other places of the world.

I am not claiming that the roman republic was the best system at the time, but it sure did the job for a hundred year or so before it was replaced by an autocracy.

500 years?

[danyboy27]

500 years?

forgive my fail sir.

[ComradeMan]

forgive my fail sir.

Caesar is clement...



(In reality thumbs up was Roman the sign for "kill" and thumbs down didn't exist!!!)

[Revolution starts with U]

In reality, all we know is that it was thumbing sign... something involving having the thumb out. You will find no evidence whether it was thumbs up, or thumbs down. We can only assume as such because the thumbs up stayed around.

[ComradeMan]

In reality, all we know is that it was thumbing sign... something involving having the thumb out. You will find no evidence whether it was thumbs up, or thumbs down. We can only assume as such because the thumbs up stayed around.

Sorry, but we do know a little more than that.
Pollice compresso favor indicabatur

Pliny: "There is even a proverb that bids us turn down our thumbs to show approval" (Natural History, XXVIII.25). pollices premere- "turn down our thumbs," The opposite gesture a thumb pointing up or infesto pollice as found in Quintilian signifyingdeath. Also pollex "to close down the thumb (premere) was a sign of approbation; to extend it (vertere, convertere; pollex infestus) a sign of disapprobation."

It also makes sense in the way people still think of "stick it up him" in terms of a sword.

It seems a 19th century artist by the name of Gerome misinterpreted the Latin term pollice verso (thumb turned) and painted it downwards.

A Roman medal from Gaul c3rd century CE illustrates gladiators and a closed fist of mercy.


Médaillon de Cavillargues

[progressive_lefty]

Let me just clear things up for you a bit. The senate needs a simple majority to pass a bill, unless theres a philibuster, which prevents a bill from coming up for vote, a philibuster (which is when someone blocks the processs through just taking up the floor) can only be broken by a 2/3ds vote, it used to be used only once in a blue moon, now its used by the republicans for almost every democratic proposal.

Thanks for your post, now I understand the significance of the Filibuster. In the past I wasn't aware of it.

[Apoi_Viitor]

I think it's quite apparent the American Populace is more progressive than their leaders...

http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...ic_opinion.pdf

[Skooma Addict]

Americans are too progressive/protectionist on economic issues for their own good. Caplan discusses this in more depth in his book Democracy the God that Failed. Basically, economists, who are generally the most informed people on such matters, are more market oriented when it comes to economic matters than the general population.

[Pierre.Laporte]

Yes we do,

"NOTE: This poll was conducted by telephone November 29–December 2, 2010, at the CBS News interviewing facility among a random sample of 1,137 adults nationwide. Some low-percentage answer choices have been omitted. "

The very problem with that is that it only gets people with telephones. Many people don't have land lines any longer and rely on cell phones instead. As such, this probably only polled older Americans as opposed to young ones.

We also have no idea how "random" it is. Perhaps they were only surveying people who lived in large cities? We can never always be looking down their shoulder so no matter how well done polls are performed, they can never be taken as a mandate or an exact science.

The poll is probably in the right area. It's just good practice not to rely on them as completely reliable.

[RGacky3]

Basically, economists, who are generally the most informed people on such matters, are more market oriented when it comes to economic matters than the general population.

I'm not buying that at all, back that up.

It's just good practice not to rely on them as completely reliable.

Which is why its just part of the bigger picture, you gotta look at other polls as well.

[Bud Struggle]

Which is why its just part of the bigger picture, you gotta look at other polls as well.

I hear Vogue is comming out with one next week.

[Bud Struggle]

It makes you more progressive than the establishment.

Than so was Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton.

Being for an adjusted tax structure doesn't make you "Progressive" it just makes you for a tax structure that had been in place for 60 years until Bush came along.

[ComradeMan]

Than so was Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton.

Being for an adjusted tax structure doesn't make you "Progressive" it just makes you for a tax structure that had been in place for 60 years until Bush came along.

People never want to pay more tax themselves but don't mind others paying it- especially if they are seen to be wealthier.

Progressive would be to abolish most taxes as state organised theft.

[danyboy27]

People never want to pay more tax themselves but don't mind others paying it- especially if they are seen to be wealthier.

Progressive would be to abolish most taxes as state organised theft.

Instead of taxes, we should all get mentatory government service.
half of the week we work at our regular job, the other half, we would contribute to our society has a whole by building road, organizing education courses in science and technology or designing the future plan of the lattest public building.

Instead of giving away money where god know where, you would be able to dirrectly contribute to society.

and for those who dosnt want to contribute they would be able to leave anytime for another place.

If you are not ready to contribute to the community you live in, then why are you living in this community at all?