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Is it true that Anarchists wish to abolish all laws?
If so, how will that work out?
Things like rape, pedophilia, ect. will not be against the "Law"?
I'm confused, and excuse my ignorance if I'm far off please, I was just curious to know.
[FONT="Courier New"] “We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted. Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution. Our aim is to fight against the enemies of the Revolution and of the new order of life. ”
― Felix Dzerzhinsky [/FONT]
لا شيء يمكن وقف محاكم التفتيش للثورة
Brief answer: No. any viable society has to have a system of governance where people make basic rules for their society, and they have to have a way to enforce those laws.
a hierarchical, state apparatus, run by elements of the bureaucratic class, and beholden to elite classes, isn't the only possible form of governance.
The emancipation of the working class must be the work of the workers themselves.
Thanks for the clarification then.
Because it would be absurd to have no rules or laws in a society.
[FONT="Courier New"] “We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted. Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution. Our aim is to fight against the enemies of the Revolution and of the new order of life. ”
― Felix Dzerzhinsky [/FONT]
لا شيء يمكن وقف محاكم التفتيش للثورة
I thought Kropotkin spoke of abolishing "enacted law"?
If there is anything to learn from the concrete experience of laws, in the sense they exist in this society, it's that they are useless at best. For example, rape culture means that, contrary to the law, rape is practiced with relative impunity (certain types of rape are frowned upon and prosecuted of course, but only those that are outside the accepted framework of "She didn't fight back", those committed by "criminals", etc.). The reason most of us don't go on murder sprees isn't that we fear the legal consequences, but that we have no murderous desires: the exception, of course, is the will to class violence that ensures the rich murder with their militaries and police, whereas we will, of course, be punished if we act our rage against our rulers.
That of course is the essence of "the law" - who is in and outside of it. We cannot imprison anyone, unless we are the state. We can't beat the shit out of someone unless we are the police. We can't murder anyone unless they're terrorists and we are the military. Etc.
We don't need laws - we need real communities.
The life we have conferred upon these objects confronts us as something hostile and alien.
Formerly Virgin Molotov Cocktail (11/10/2004 - 21/08/2013)
Still, problems remain.
Chief among which, one could argue, is defining what laws are legitimate and necessary and which are logical fallacies designed to protect private property and its state. Also, there is still the issue of who will enforce these supreme laws, and that way lie Animal Farm's fearful army of law-enforcing dogs: an essential part of the capitalist state that,when brought into a socialist society, grows to dominate and abuse it.
This, let me be clear is a question to anarchists, for I will confess to a great prejudice towards what I have always been taught of as a terrorist and bitter far-right pseudo-philosophy.
There must be more to it, I am sure, but most of what I read seems to revolve around the naïve primitivist belief that people will behave properly because they will see it is to their best interest, which is just silly.
Anarchists do not believe in the abolishment of laws, from what I understand Workers Councils would create laws for their workplace, and Governments that everyone can participate in through direct democracy, could hold law. But my only question is, what if some of these laws become oppressive and unjust against liberty and freedom, who will stop them?
MARX-ENGELS-LENIN-STALIN
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not want our enemies to have guns, so why should we let them have ideas?" - Joseph Stalin
"Here, in the Soviet Union, I am not a Negro but a human being for the first time in my life ... I walk in full human dignity." - Paul RobesonSOLIDARITY
FREEDOM
Uh, that's why anarchists believe in the abolition of law. Not "more democratic" governments.
Please consider the very real possibility that you are, in fact, not an anarchist.
The life we have conferred upon these objects confronts us as something hostile and alien.
Formerly Virgin Molotov Cocktail (11/10/2004 - 21/08/2013)
So Virgin Molotov Cocktail, in the event of rape, society will just do nothing for rape is not "against the rules".
You cannot assume that there will be no murder or rape. That's absurd.
[FONT="Courier New"] “We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted. Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution. Our aim is to fight against the enemies of the Revolution and of the new order of life. ”
― Felix Dzerzhinsky [/FONT]
لا شيء يمكن وقف محاكم التفتيش للثورة
How about the female/male actually having a gun/any kind of self defense and being able to help herself. And relatives or the community around her being able to deal with it based on what they believe is bad.
Im pretty sure Workers Councils would be Direct Democracy Governments, in which EVERYONE can participate in.
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not want our enemies to have guns, so why should we let them have ideas?" - Joseph Stalin
"Here, in the Soviet Union, I am not a Negro but a human being for the first time in my life ... I walk in full human dignity." - Paul Robeson
you are mistaken. i know there are some individuals who talk like you do, and say they are for the "abolition of laws" and the "abolition of all government" but this is not a serious point of view, in my opinion. nor is this what libertarian socialism AKA social anarchism is all about.
what is the purpose of a communal libertarian structure of assemblies and elected delegates? what about all the talk of the "libertarian municipality"? A municipality is a local government. and how can the abolition of wage slavery be a reality if it can't be enforced? and what about the social ownership and control of the means of production? Obviously this entails rules. for example, it would be illegal to hire someone as a wage slave.
in Aragon when the anarchists persuaded their fellow villages to set up a libertarian municipality they outlawed hiring other people to work for you. so they alloweed individual peasant families to have only as much land as they could farm with their own labor. note here that when i say they "allowed them" I'm talking about governance over the community.
you seem to imagine that anarchism means there are no rules and "anything goes". there could never exist a society at all on that basis.
The emancipation of the working class must be the work of the workers themselves.
No,it's an anarchism myth, perpetrated by ignoramuses or by particulalry mean marxists.
Same with
'the revolution will happen instantly'
'the revolution will happen everywhere at once'
'we don't need to plan out shit, everything will be taken care of the rebellious masses'
'all we need is a general strike'
'anarchy = total 100% freedom for all '
etc
It might not be 100%, but Anarchy is the largest amount of freedom we can get.
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not want our enemies to have guns, so why should we let them have ideas?" - Joseph Stalin
"Here, in the Soviet Union, I am not a Negro but a human being for the first time in my life ... I walk in full human dignity." - Paul Robeson
Yeah, see, guns are something I would hope to be abolished.
[FONT="Courier New"] “We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted. Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution. Our aim is to fight against the enemies of the Revolution and of the new order of life. ”
― Felix Dzerzhinsky [/FONT]
لا شيء يمكن وقف محاكم التفتيش للثورة
"We are free, truly free, when we don't need to rent our arms to anybody in order to be able to lift a piece of bread to our mouths."
- Ricardo Flores Magón
"I am resolved to struggle against everything and everybody."
- Emiliano Zapata
I'm a huge Gun Rights supporter, the banning of guns would just increase crime. I am the ultimate Gun Rights debater, I WILL beat you.
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not want our enemies to have guns, so why should we let them have ideas?" - Joseph Stalin
"Here, in the Soviet Union, I am not a Negro but a human being for the first time in my life ... I walk in full human dignity." - Paul Robeson
Gun rights is an issue I've never had enough interest in to develop more than a very general opinion on. Can you give me a briefish rundown on your position?I'm a huge Gun Rights supporter, the banning of guns would just increase crime. I am the ultimate Gun Rights debater, I WILL beat you.
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how.
-Nietzsche
in the USA guns are a part of a certain part of working class culture. i'm personally a supporter of "gun rights." my family were from the plains, from a predominantly rural area. in rural areas of the USA guns are a part of the local working class culture. during the American revolution the creation of militia groups from below was part of the plebeian involvement in the struggle, and you have a wee remant of this in the 2nd amendment, which refers to the original idea of an armed people, a militia. but this was not useful for imperialist conquest, which needed a professional, standing army.
this conflict can be interpreted either for leftwing or right wing purposes. Rob Williams, with his Negros with guns group interpreted this in the '60s from a left point of view, as did the Panthers.
The emancipation of the working class must be the work of the workers themselves.
Anarchism means no rulers, not no rules.
"Machinery in itself is a victory of man over the forces of nature, but in the hands of capital it makes man the slave of those forces" - Uncle Karl
