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I don't know about all that now. That's fucking ridiculous.
Blackscare, me thinks that you love this guy a bit too much.
I agree with most of what you said but I also agree a little with Homage's initial two posts. The guy is still a right-libertarian. He even admits that his contribution is merely to help spur reform, not total social transformation.
I tend to look a lot at a person's philosophical presuppositions to see what their actions mean and what they will mean for the future of class struggle.
Assange is a bit of an arrogant egotistical twit but he is doing good work. That doesn't mean that you have to give Homage to Catalonia an internet sucker punch by claiming that he is doing less to drive an Excalibur type sword into the belly of the imperial dragon or whatever other shit you said.
You need to come off it. You've been the most vocal advocate against any criticism of Assange and Wikileaks on here.
Look, my point is not to bash Assange or Wikileaks at all, I think they are doing a vital job against Imperialism.
My problem is that the bulk of anti-imperialist and anti-government work out there or at least is getting a lot of attention, is being done by people of the libertarian bent; Assange (admitted Libertarian), NWO crowd, Ron Paul and Alex Jones, etc. All of these groups, most of which are not even connected to one another are reiterating stuff that Marxists and Anarchists have been saying for years on end. From Marx to Lenin, from Castro to Mao, From Chomsky to Michael Parenti.
It just seems like now people will listen when a libertarian is at the forefront, and somehow libertarians manage to receive a lot of funds for projects (most likely from anti-imperialist cappies).
The difference is that they put their own right wing spin on it and advocate mere reform or less government (a Rothbardian Libertarian). Wikileaks, while providing a vital source of anti-imperialist material, is led by none other that an advocate of that same strain of libertarianism that advocates for reform or less government; more markets.
At some point we're going to have to take this information and have a different story than Assange to tell people because we all come from a diametrically opposed worldview from his.
So that is why I think that we shouldn't be so damn defensive (looking at you Blackscare) if someone dares to hint that we should analyze the situation before being 100% pro-Assange. I tend to look at him like I look at Iran, someone to support against imperialism, nothing more.
Last edited by RadioRaheem84; 10th December 2010 at 02:16.
Well then support Alex Jones and Ron Paul too then. Shit. The point is that at some point we will have to take a different approach at analyzing the material in the cables. One that Assange himself would totally oppose.
I think it's cool that Wikileaks has been exposing empire and is duking it out with them, but have you thought about the outcome? Especially with the whole "government = socialism" mindset that's prevalent today? Especially with the figurehead being a libertarian?
I think that's primarily a disease of the US.
The more intelligent Right commentators here have been concerned about the WikiLeaks interfering with the ability of diplomats to be diplomatic aka back room deals are going to be harder to make. My favourite conservative has expressed the same view.
I also don't think it's the worst thing that symbolic leader of a project-movement is being shown as messed up. I'd cook him dinner or serve him a coffee or beer. I wouldn't want him in the house for too long.
LOL. Yeah, same here.
Percentage of time that Assange's political beliefs have been mentioned in media coverage? 0.0001%?
What's the matter Lagerboy, afraid you might taste something?
Memo: Do not make this guy Commissar of Communication, Education or in charge of the Secret Police.
RED DAVE
Alright, fair enough, I was a bit too hostile there. Not to get into drama bullshit, but I had a reaaally scary/frustrating day yesterday.
I guess I'm a bit of an Assange fanboy, but I stand by the point that one should not just dismiss him based on his own personal views. What he is doing, especially if it materializes into something larger, really takes on a life of it's own. People from all different perspectives are reading these leaks and taking from them what they will. Nobody, so far as I can see, is reading these things thinking "Ok, so Assange is trying to make X point by releasing this, I see". Not to mention, in all the coverage of this I've seen in the MSM, I think I've heard his personal political orientation mentioned once.
He is releasing raw information here, he may write an opinion piece here and there but frankly, most people don't care about that. For said reason, I think his own personal intentions are basically negligible.
Also, I don't think that we should be complaining that "people will listen when a libertarian is at the forefront", rather we should be using the raw data he's providing (which is by far his main contribution, although I shouldn't be saying "he" so much as "them") to provide compelling Leftist analysis of events. We can't blame others for our own failings in this regard, especially when they're providing us with plenty of fodder for which to spread our own message.
Edit: upon re-reading this, I realize that I'm still just defending the guy personally by arguing that... his personality doesn't matter. This doesn't make sense, I get it. But there are still valid points I made, I think. I'll shut up now.
... To live – does it not mean to have indomitable faith in victory?
Exactly.
... To live – does it not mean to have indomitable faith in victory?
You're right, it hasn't been mentioned in the mainstream press. But I was referring to the already politically inclined right libertarian crowd and new people looking to find out about his political views.
It's hard to get my point across because the guy has done a great service to people by exposing government lies, but what I am trying to say is that it comes from a totally polar perspective than the one we're promoting. All of the stuff revealed is already a given to us because we view events from a systemic pov, but to everyone else it's an awakening to how corrupt the situation really is, and the people at the forefront of all this info are usually right libertarians (well funded too).
Back in the 60s and 70s, when more info came out on how corrupt governments really were, socialists and leftists were mostly at the forefront of leading the charge. Now, if we're not at the forefront using the data that Assange and his team released, we could lose the cynical public (especially in the US) to libertarianism.
It took Ratzinger to say that condoms were OK i they prevented spreading AIDS. A leftish Pope could never have done that.
Embrace the ironies.
I don't give a shit what happens to Assange as long as wikileaks keeps going.
Seriously, it's embarrassing to be associated with people like you.
"Machinery in itself is a victory of man over the forces of nature, but in the hands of capital it makes man the slave of those forces" - Uncle Karl
http://cryptome.org/0002/ja-conspiracies.pdf
Interesting analysis, might make you think more on what Assange is thinking, and why he created Wikileaks.
"I have need to be all on fire, for I have mountains of ice about me to melt." -William Lloyd Garrison
"The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end." -Leon Trotsky
If Alex Jones or Ron Paul promised to release internal documents of banks and other corporations to the public, and were arrested on false pretexts to prevent it, I would certainly "support" them - or their actions anyway (now the question is, did they or are they doing that, or anything vaguely similar?)
Why should we care about what political delusions Assange holds to, as long as these delusions don't hinder him from unraveling the secrecy of governments and corporations?
Luís Henrique
Never thought I'd link to the Daily Mail in a positive way before.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ge-lawyer.html
"I have need to be all on fire, for I have mountains of ice about me to melt." -William Lloyd Garrison
"The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end." -Leon Trotsky
