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I think Naomi Klein said it really well "rape is being used in this case the same way women rights where used as an pretext for the invasion of Afghanistan", we aren't making this something else than an rape accusation, they did.
It may very well be that assange is an narsistic bastard that took advantage of those women. But that's not why they locked him up now and if you think they did you really need to pull your head out of your arse.
Last edited by Sasha; 9th December 2010 at 00:47.
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
Svenne you've hit the nail on the head here: This whole thing is an elaborate rape conspiracy created by all the evil anti-feminist men of the world because only men are capable of being liars and opportunistic fuckers and its frankly oppressive to believe the woman with CIA ties who writes (since deleted) manuals on how to get ex's in trouble with the law could be anything but a victim here.
the accusation is that when he was having sex with a woman and the condom broke, he didn't stop as she requested but used the force of his weight to continue the sex against her wishes. If this is true, then I'd have to say this is rape. another accusation is that he had sex with a woman when she was asleep.
in any event, lots of people and tabloids are making all kinds of speculative statements without first hearing the actual evidence against him, that is, in absence of actual evidence. the accusation that one of the women must be a plant because she had "links" to the CIA was farcical if you actually read what the supposed basis for this claim is.
take a look at this piece by Kate Harding:
http://www.zcommunications.org/the-r...y-kate-harding
The emancipation of the working class must be the work of the workers themselves.
This post a is a bit short on the facts, but high on the innuendo and vague, paranoid accusations. If anything, a familiar scene from the media hype around Wikileaks.
Whether Julian Assange is a saint or not is completely irrelevant. I know too little about the man's background to say anything sensible about that. What is clear however is that he has taken on the role of the person who gets all the shit for what Wikileaks does, and that is indeed what's happening at the moment. With the way he is being persecuted, it would be insane to lean back in our armchairs and fling unsubstantiated shit at him. Of course he's not a saint, but if the devil got treated this way, I'm sure I could think of some good things to say about him as well.
If people are trivialising rape, or entertaining the "male rights" idea that female alleged rape victims should be barraged with questions about their personal integrity, then that is wrong; but the reason people cast doubt on this case has nothing to do with that at all. What is even worse in any case is the assumption of guilt on Assange's part, which is always the more dangerous because it could see someone tried or even sent to a country where a significant amount of people support his extrajudicial execution, simply for publicly representing a website that helps publish the truth about what governments are up to.
Much has been made in the media about the supposedly "feminist" rape laws in Sweden. Perhaps someone can explain these a bit better? That kind of influence on legislation can be positive, because it can free these cases from the kind of bullshit that you sometimes see in less "feminist" countries, where the defence tries to establish the alleged victim as a "slut" or some such.
On the other hand, there should be no illusions that this somehow frees Sweden from either capitalism or patriarchy and all the effects that this has on law; and considering Sweden's participation in the imperialist world like any other country (in this case, as a covert member of NATO, an organisation that wants to carry on without scrutiny from parliaments and journalists and other nosy bastards as the cables show), "feminist" legislation can easily be used to send a perfectly innocent person to jail.
If these interests were representative of "feminism", then an "anti-feminist crusade" would certainly be in order, but let's not be silly here.
A bit of poetic license to mention him, true. But "neutral" countries that are actually subservient to US interests are really going above and beyond the call of duty with regards to Assange at the moment.
What's the matter Lagerboy, afraid you might taste something?
After wich she throws him an party, continues to meet up with him, let's her friend sleep in the same bed as him "who he rapes too" and then have consensual sex with him again (!) during wich the exact same scenario (!)happens again?
Sorry but pull the other one, it has bells on it.
Last edited by Sasha; 9th December 2010 at 00:47.
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
We would be anti feiminists IF he actually comitted rape. Even Sweden can't charge him with rape.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
In this case, if it wouldn't have been women it would've been that he had been with a man, or more men, or of both sexes, or that he himself is a sexual minority, or a muslim, socialist, etc. It doesn't matter what - there is simply one global law in this new free world: you do not fuck with the rulers. (Hmm, no, that's been pretty much the only rule in all of human history now that I think of it...)
There are basically countless cases where heads of gangs and mafias, murderers and rapists "get away", yet there are no hardcore spotlights on them. The very nations we all live in commit crimes on huge scales and sums, yet some information is branded as even more dangerous than al-Quaeda? I mean, why aren't there warrants out for Blair's and Bush's asses now that it is widely known that they committed crimes that are still ongoing? They've basically given their concent to countless of rapes on women in Iraq and Afghanistan by British and American soldiers, yet that isn't an international crime? What "may be rape" is?
Also, no one is saying that rape can be overseen if the person in question is "good elsewhere". But then who here can raise their hand and say that no innocent man, woman or child were killed or raped or tortured by revolutionaries in Russia, China, Cuba, Vietnam, etc? Or in liberation wars, or in any other case for that matter? Thus, the real battle here is the documents and their unmasking of the governments (or government, I really can't tell any difference in the west anymore) which certain groups are trying to change into one bad soldier (who, once again, may not have done anything).
Last edited by Tatarin; 9th December 2010 at 01:42. Reason: Added text.
"In February 1991, while attending the National Grocers' Association, President Bush visited a model supermarket. When taken to the checkout counter and shown how to pass a couple of items over the scanner, he excitedly voiced his admiration for this "new technology." It was evident he had not visited a supermarket in years, if ever."
-Michael Parenti, "Against Empire"
Pretty convenient timing, though.
Some women do lie about getting raped, believe it or not. To believe otherwise is to infantilize women (in the words of Tragic Clown way back when).
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
Especially women who are probably under pressure from higher ups.
The link to the CIA is not as clear as you think it is.
And really you people are convinced he is innocent? You hardly have any proof to back that up. So feminism goes out the window just because the guy happens to be wanted by the powers that be? Sad.
For my part I wish he is innocent, but I don't base my opinion on wishful thinking, so far we do not have conclusive proof either way.
"I want to say sweet, silly things." - V.I Lenin
base solely on the evidence that is available and has been released it seems that this is a fallacious charge, which is why it was dropped in the first place. again, this is just based on what we know and has been released.
This is similar to my viewpoint: there's little evidence available, but what evidence there is seems to imply Assange's innocence.
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how.
-Nietzsche
I personally haven't seen any evidence that he's guilty (which is what counts), other than the flimsy accounts given by the accusers. Their stories don't make a great deal of sense when looked at in the context of the events surrounding the supposed incidents. Perhaps you and svenne have read something in the Swedish press that we aren't privy to?
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
Something tells me that if he gets put into prison, he is going to get "lost" in the system. If he isn't convicted, then I suspect he'll be assassinated. Either way, it goes to show what the government that the right worships as being the greatest ever truly is... and it reveals the fact that America is by far no better than any nation. Fuck, if those fighting the wars and those in power followed the rules and did things the right way, they wouldn't have had anything to fear... but I guess when you're all powerful, you have a "right" to play around the rules and fuck everybody else.
Happiness is knowing that you are free to think, to feel and to love.
Of course not every time..
But you have to be pretty damn foolish to believe that this man conveniently got thrown in jail directly after a huge leak.
And also he isn't actually being charged with rape or sexual abuse. The allegation says it was consensual.
Economic Left/Right: -9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one" - Albert Einstein
The proof is that all parties admit to the sex having been consensual, and then their behavior after the fact (sending SMS texts where they brag about having sex with him, tweeting praise about him, throwing a party for him, and one girl letting her friend sleep with the "rapist") all seems to cast serious doubts on the allegations.
And that's under NORMAL circumstances. With what we know about how the case was originally dropped, and testimony that they didn't even want to press rape charges PLUS Assange being a major target...and yeah.
but they don't admit this. in reality nobody who has posted here has any real idea of what actual evidence the Swedish prosecutors have. everybody is simply speculating.
The emancipation of the working class must be the work of the workers themselves.
Have you ever read about the "fallacy of silent evidence"? As observers, we can and should make inferences based on our impression of the context surrounding something about which we are unsure. Of course, argument from fallacy is a fallacy in itself, but it's something to think about.
And it's not just that he "happens to be wanted by the powers that be."
Why kill someone if you can just ruin their reputation? Is it so hard to believe that the same element of rape that so commonly benefits men - that it's difficult to conclusively prove either way - could be used by the ruling class in the opposite way as well?
Well, the counter-accusation would be that it is made up, or at least influenced by the CIA? A honey-trap and whatnot. For me, I've read some good blog articles on it, none of necessarily brings any new facts, but it sort of brings it beyond the senasationalism that's been pretty prevalent elsewhere.
He is. And it doesn't, it says it started out consensual.Originally Posted by Ⓐ☭property_is_robbery☭Ⓐ
Synthesis: And would you say you are in a position of both understanding of the subject matter in general and this specific case so that you could make a reasonable judgment? Allusions has been made to teh women's behavior. I don't think it necessarily proves anything, that which we know at least. Rape victims or victims of sexual molestation does not per definition have to break down or even break-off all contact with the perp.
Now I would be the first to say there is something fishy about this case, but we have to also accept that coincidences like this do happen. Assange is not necessarily a saint and we have to be ready for the possibility that he is in fact guilty.
"I want to say sweet, silly things." - V.I Lenin
An Injury to One is an Injury to All