Definition of Rape

[Quail]

I've been thinking about this lately due to another thread on this forum, and I was wondering how other people think that "rape" should be defined. (I know that this isn't just a women's issue but I wasn't sure where else to put it.) I think that it is unhealpful and counterproductive to talk about some kind of "heirarchy" of sexual assault. My own thought on the matter is that forced penetration of any kind should be classified as rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact (for example in the case of a man being assaulted). I think that the distinction between "sexual assault" and "rape" makes it more difficult for survivors to open up to people and also that it makes some violation seem more acceptable.

I also think that the issue of consent isn't covered well (if at all) in sex education at schools, at least from my own experience. Consent especially, and other issues around assault/abuse are things that should be discussed in a healthy and open manner.

This is a somewhat rambly post, sorry. Any thoughts?

[Widerstand]

I wouldn't really advise such a broad definition of rape as "unwanted sexual contact" - if a drunk guy grabs a girls butt, for example, that is, in most cases, "unwanted sexual contact", but to call it rape seems a bit absurd.

I have no idea about the "sexual assault"/"rape" debate you're speaking of. As far as I know, the German debate mostly centers around the Definitionsmacht concept, which demands that what "sexualized violence" is, is defined by the victim by their own subjective standards, and often that the victim should have a say in how the aggressor is sanctioned, to prevent further traumatizing and inconveniences for the victim.

[gorillafuck]

I think that it is unhealpful and counterproductive to talk about some kind of "heirarchy" of sexual assault. My own thought on the matter is that forced penetration of any kind should be classified as rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact (for example in the case of a man being assaulted). I think that the distinction between "sexual assault" and "rape" makes it more difficult for survivors to open up to people and also that it makes some violation seem more acceptable.

Sorry to turn this thread into a thread about another, but I don't know what you're referring to. The question in the debate in the other thread was never whether certain types of sexual assault are worse than eachother, the argument was because of some people comparing raping someone to something that does not even amount to sexual assault in any way.

[Decolonize The Left]

This really shouldn't be a complicated discussion.

Rape is generally defined as the act of forcing sexual activity (intercourse or not) on another against their will and without their consent.

- August

[Widerstand]

This really shouldn't be a complicated discussion.

Rape is generally defined as the act of forcing sexual activity (intercourse or not) on another against their will and without their consent.

- August

What's sexual activity then?

[Decolonize The Left]

What's sexual activity then?

Activities associated with sexual intercourse.

- August

[brigadista]

no means no

[Widerstand]

Activities associated with sexual intercourse.

- August

So this requires stimulation in one way or another, as opposed to just "contact" as proposed by kayl?

[Decolonize The Left]

So this requires stimulation in one way or another, as opposed to just "contact" as proposed by kayl?

Correct. Unwanted sexual contact is generally referred to as "sexual assault." So sexual assault encompasses rape - but rape is not equivalent to all forms of sexual assault.

- August

[Quail]

So this requires stimulation in one way or another, as opposed to just "contact" as proposed by kayl?

Sexual contact refers to anything further than kissing, in the post that I made. It's harder to define in the case of a man, because of the way that the penis responds to stimulation. However, any unwanted penetration would be rape in my view.

Also, my original post wasn't directly related to another thread. It was just that my thoughts went off on a tangent so I decided to post about it.

[Widerstand]

Sexual contact refers to anything further than kissing

Ah. Well, that's a much narrower definition of "sexual contact" than I'd have assumed.

[Quail]

Well, I base that on the idea that a kiss can be a misunderstanding, unless it is done violently. I would consider things like men slapping my arse to be demeaning, but it wouldn't have the same effects mentally as unwanted contact underneath the clothes, if that makes sense.

[NKVD]

another against their will and without their consent.

What do you consider to be acceptable consent? If a boss tells his employee to have sex with him or she gets fired and she "consents", would you call that consent? Are minors capable of giving consent?

[Jalapeno Enema]

What do you consider to be acceptable consent? If a boss tells his employee to have sex with him or she gets fired and she "consents", would you call that consent? Are minors capable of giving consent?

That would be coercion, not consentual.

[Jalapeno Enema]

Are minors capable of giving consent?

and no, this isn't NAMBLA

[Widerstand]

What do you consider to be acceptable consent? If a boss tells his employee to have sex with him or she gets fired and she "consents", would you call that consent? Are minors capable of giving consent?

I think consent is more complex than that. The first example is obviously coercion. Although some people may be fine with using sex as a bargaining tool, in this is clearly a threat by the boss.

As for the second, let's not even go there...

[NKVD]

This is why we can't have nice things....

Huh?

[Widerstand]

This thread will die in a pedophilia flame fest.

[redz]

I've been thinking about this lately due to another thread on this forum, and I was wondering how other people think that "rape" should be defined.

It's critical to tread very carefully on this issue, because the charge of "rape" as a weapon wielded by the sexual politics of the bourgeoisie can be and is being used against the working class and the "progressive" left - the WikiLeaks case and the charges wielded against Julian Assange are a case currently in point. For an interesting analysis of this, see:

Sex scandal concocted against WikiLeaks?
http://redkeyhole.wordpress.com/2010...nst-wikileaks/

As for a definition, here's a starter: The definition of rape should be confined to forcible, hostile penetration of one of the three sexually relevant cavities - vagina, mouth, anus (and this implies a bona fide sexual violation, particularly of the mouth - just forcing, say, a dildo in somebody's mouth constitutes sexually themed abuse but not rape, but forcing a penis in is rape by my count; biting the penis off is another issue).

Redz

[redz]

What do you consider to be acceptable consent? If a boss tells his employee to have sex with him or she gets fired and she "consents", would you call that consent? Are minors capable of giving consent?

Rape implies violence. Extorted sexual performance is bad (and probably commonplace) but not rape - it's a kind of "consent" under intimidation or non-violent duress.

The notion of "minors" is rather blurry. The rule should be EFFECTIVE CONSENT, based not on any arbitrary age benchmarks but rather - if there's any question of non-consent or abuse - on psychological evaluation and the judgement of a competent workingclass court.

Redz