Formality in Languages

[Invincible Summer]

So why do Japanese and Korean (maybe others too, but definitely these two) have such strict rules regarding formal diction? Like, it's almost imperative that in Japanese/Korean you use the appropriate form of speech with people in various age levels and relationship-closeness or you're seen as extremely rude.

Does this have roots in feudal society? Also, what other languages have such strictures regarding speech? I know in French, Spanish, and German there are formal "you" forms, but it's not socially destructive if you don't use it.

[JazzRemington]

Well, the same used to be the case in English. In Middle English (spoken from around 1066 to the end of the middle ages in England), you had "ye". In some parts of England, this was the plural form of "you", but in others it was a form of "you" that was used to address those of higher rank (compare this with the German "sie"). Before the Norman invasion, I don't believe the Anglo-Saxon's language had anything like this.

[promethean]

This article should be helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T–V_distinction

[Devrim]

Well, the same used to be the case in English. In Middle English (spoken from around 1066 to the end of the middle ages in England), you had "ye". In some parts of England, this was the plural form of "you", but in others it was a form of "you" that was used to address those of higher rank (compare this with the German "sie"). Before the Norman invasion, I don't believe the Anglo-Saxon's language had anything like this.

You are mistaken. The form 'ye', like the word 'I' was the subject whereas 'you' was the object, like the word 'me'.

The word relevant to this discussion is 'thou' (subject)/'thee' (object).

Devrim

[¿Que?]

I know in French, Spanish, and German there are formal "you" forms, but it's not socially destructive if you don't use it.

The "usted" is used sometimes as formal language. So if you had a job interview, I think you'd use "usted" instead of "tu" or "vos." Otherwise, there's a good chance you'd be denied a job. It's somewhat like linguistic business attire. That's my guess. I haven't been to a Spanish speaking country in years though.

[Wanted Man]

Well, the same used to be the case in English. In Middle English (spoken from around 1066 to the end of the middle ages in England), you had "ye". In some parts of England, this was the plural form of "you", but in others it was a form of "you" that was used to address those of higher rank (compare this with the German "sie"). Before the Norman invasion, I don't believe the Anglo-Saxon's language had anything like this.

The German formal "Sie" would be with a capital S. Not capitalised, it means "she" or "they".

In Dutch, there is the formal "u" and informal "jij" or "je". The formal is mostly used for people you don't know, elder relatives, etc. But this has changed over time. I was always taught to say "u" to my grandparents, but other people use the informal more often.

[JazzRemington]

You are mistaken. The form 'ye', like the word 'I' was the subject whereas 'you' was the object, like the word 'me'.

The word relevant to this discussion is 'thou' (subject)/'thee' (object).

Devrim

Actually, I'm not. I don't have access to the book anymore, but according to J.A. Burrow and Thorlan Turville-Petre's "A Book of Middle English", what I had written was the case. They tended to use "thee" or "the" for the dative/accusative of "you". The thing you have to understand is that there was no standard for the type of English spoken in the country. If you lived there during that time, you might think you've crossed into a different country if you went from north to the south. For example, I think in the south they used "Ich" for "I" and had a contraction "Icham" for "I'm" or "I am". In the north, they just used "I" and had no contraction for "I am". Some places kept a part of the Old English conjugations to designate nominative, accusative, dative, and genitive forms, while others just designated singular and plural forms and not any further grammatical function.

It was a clusterfuck of dialects, really.