Thread: Triangle Shirtwaist Factory

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  1. #1
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    I posted something on another thread (the one with the photo of a man falling to his death) but am not sure anyone saw it as I think people where ignoring the thread... Anyway... thought it may interest some so I moved it.



    Has anyone here ever read about the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire in NYC over 100 years ago? In fact the bulding is still there... not to far from where the WTC was overlooking Washington Square Park, and next to NYU.

    The owners wanted to keep out the unions that where constantly trying to organize sweatshops in NYC. Triangle who's workers where mostly immegrent Jews, Poles, Slavs, etc... kept the fire exit doors locked in order to keep the organizers out.

    One day there was a horrific fire, and while the management on the upper floors where able to excape via the roof over to the NYU dorm, the workers inside where mostly burned alive. A fireman standing outside on the street saw what he thought where bundles of cloth being thrown out of the windows and thought it was strange someone would want to save faberic... then he realized as he looked at the bodies on the street that young girls trying not to be burned alive where jumping to their deaths.

    Later after the fire was put out they found the doors blocked from the inside by hundereds of women laying aganst the doors, their bodies burned beyond belief. That was a black day on the city... and it caused a big change in fire codes and worker's rights. And in the end.. after the trial... Triangle didn't pay one thin dime to the famlies of the dead workers.

    Before Tusday, that was NYC's worst tragedy... just think it's a horrific thing to have to jump to your death to save yourself from being burned to death.
    In Solidarity,
    RC
  2. #2
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    You would think that people were learn the lesson, right? But capitalism values capital, not people, and the same thing still goes on.

    On September 3, 1991, a fire started in an Imperial Food Products chicken processing plant. There was no sprinkler system, no evacuation plan and only one fire extinguisher. The flames soon spread. As workers rushed for the doors, they found that they couldn't get out. All but the very front doors had been padlocked from the outside. Company exacutives later said they did this to prevent chicken parts from being stolen. Twenty-five out of ninety workers died in the blaze. More than fifty others were burned or injured.

    The media called it a "horrific accident," but it was no accident, and the plant had never once been inspected in its eleven year history.

    Oh, and the starting pay was $4.95 an hour. One can understand why executives would be worried that employees would try to steal food with that kind of a wage.

    vox
    Economists have provided capitalists with a comforting concept called the "free market." It does not describe any part of reality, at any place or time. It's a mantra conveniently invoked when it is proposed that government do something the faithful don't like, and just as conveniently ignored whenever they want government to do something for them.
  3. #3
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    $4.95 an hour? One would be forced to steal food to live. I also should have pointed out that Triangle happened before fire sprinlers where invented... and they where called for after that...

    The fact that this chicken factory wasn't getting inspected and had no fire spriklers means that some corupt fire marshal was getting hand outs. These people are sick and only care about their money.
    In Solidarity,
    RC
  4. #4
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    Both of those stories are really tragic. Red Celtic, I agree. What I found particularly disturbing about the WTC was seeing those people jump to their deaths. No matter who they were, even if they were capitalists, they are first and foremost human beings.
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    I suppose I should also have mentioned that ladders on fire carreges (before trucks) didn't go up that high... I think only ten stories. Also I'm not sure what the death tol was... but they had to use the peirs on south street as a makeshift mourge.
    In Solidarity,
    RC
  6. #6
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    I remember when the '91 fire happened. I was livid, and disgusted that no one seemed to care. This was back before I was a Leftist, back when I was still a Democrat.

    I believe that $4.95 was above the minimum wage then, but I'd have to look it up to be sure. Remember, the Federal minimum wage is only $5.15 at hour now, ten years later. That's $206 for a 40 hour week, or $10,712 for a full 52 week year.

    This is what people are worth in the USA.

    vox
    Economists have provided capitalists with a comforting concept called the "free market." It does not describe any part of reality, at any place or time. It's a mantra conveniently invoked when it is proposed that government do something the faithful don't like, and just as conveniently ignored whenever they want government to do something for them.
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    But don't ALOT of people make more money than that? And couldn't people just get other, better jobs or just move if they weren't available in that area?

    Just playing the Devil's Advocate here...eeheh
  8. #8
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    Yes, a lot of people make more money than that, but that isn't really the point. The question is shoud anyone make that amount of money?

    As far as getting another job, the fact is that workers are coerced into taking jobs. People like to talk about the "freedom" to walk away from one job and getting another, but the reality is that if you walk away from a job, you die unless you get another.

    A lot of the details about the fire came from There's Nothing In the Middle of the Road But Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos by Jim Hightower. I didn't type everything out. One of the dead was Cynthia Chavez Wall, a single mother who had worked at a textile plant for thirteen years and made $8 an hour. She was fired for missing work because her daughter had pneumonia. Desperate for a job, she took one at Imperial Food Products. Blaming the worker for being under paid is not a valid argument. If it wasn't this worker, it would be another worker. It's never right.

    Capitalist social relations are the cause of this inequity, of course, not some poor worker's lack of hard work.

    vox
    Economists have provided capitalists with a comforting concept called the "free market." It does not describe any part of reality, at any place or time. It's a mantra conveniently invoked when it is proposed that government do something the faithful don't like, and just as conveniently ignored whenever they want government to do something for them.
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    "just because you were hurt you sohuldn't be given charity...you should work for what you want. It's simple."

    Not when you're staving to death or working your ASS off and STILL NOT OR BARELY MAKING IT!

    Gods forbid that someone ever ask and get any assistance..Christ...
  10. #10
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    Jurhael,

    Where's that quote from? I don't see it in the thread.

    vox
    Economists have provided capitalists with a comforting concept called the "free market." It does not describe any part of reality, at any place or time. It's a mantra conveniently invoked when it is proposed that government do something the faithful don't like, and just as conveniently ignored whenever they want government to do something for them.
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    It came from another message board. Thought it might have SOME relavence here.

    I have no problem with hard work myself. What bothers me is this idea that people seem to have:

    "I didn't get any help, "hand-outs", charity, welfare, so you shouldn't either."
  12. #12
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    Hey there, I wasn't criticizing, just curious.

    Perhaps you should mention to whomever posted it that the airlines are about to be bailed out by the capitalist gov't of the USA, and I don't see any republican swine whining about welfare now.

    vox
    Economists have provided capitalists with a comforting concept called the "free market." It does not describe any part of reality, at any place or time. It's a mantra conveniently invoked when it is proposed that government do something the faithful don't like, and just as conveniently ignored whenever they want government to do something for them.
  13. #13
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    Vox I know the minumum wage in 87 was $3.00 because that's what I was making when I was 17. The problem with minumum wage is that it is never in proportion to the cost of living in the most expensive area. Sure people could just move from New York City into the boonies but then where would they get jobs? People live in cities because there are lots of jobs... and because there are lots of jobs there are lots of people... lots of demand for houses, so the cost rises. Mimumum wage right now is lower than the cost for an apartment in New York City. This means people end up working off the books, or they take several jobs, or rent in unlisted apartments that aren't inspected... in buldings classifide as abandoned.

    I also wanted to say that I welcome the presence of two inquisitive minds like you two on this board... it's a breath of freash air after Ramon's "can you spot the true Revolutionary" and multi-personality boy's tantrum.
    In Solidarity,
    RC

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