A few questions regarding religion, patriotism and abortion

[Red Poplar]

@Jolly Red Giant, I'm not Irish but Croatian, however our two nations have a lot in common: the majority is Catholic, we were oppressed a lot in the past, we have a very large diaspora etc. Thank you for the time you spent writing your post, I'll certainly consider discussing further with you, when I find time since I'm rather busy at this moment. Cheers!

[Jolly Red Giant]

@Jolly Red Giant, I'm not Irish but Croatian, however our two nations have a lot in common: the majority is Catholic, we were oppressed a lot in the past, we have a very large diaspora etc. Thank you for the time you spent writing your post, I'll certainly consider discussing further with you, when I find time since I'm rather busy at this moment. Cheers!

Interesting - there you go - that's what I get for jumping to conclusions.

And yes, it would be interesting to compare views from the perspectives of both countries.

[Red Poplar]

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[#FF0000]

Open your minds, people! Nobody wants censorship in the 21st century, nobody wants to replace the current oppression with another one, which even restricts free speech. Besides, what's the point of a forum if everyone thinks the same? Dear admins, you need to change yourself and be more democratic, otherwise you'll never gain mass popularity and you'll spend entire life on forums, and not in the real world, among the PEOPLE.

This is funny because you're telling us to be more democratic when this is a rule that was voted on. Repeatedly.

[Red Poplar]

So what if it was voted on? The Constitution is above all laws, and most of them today guarantee, if not expressing, then HAVING an opinion. Again, I didn't try to enforce my opinion until I was provoked by your admin, who has many behavioural issues, which makes me wonder how he was elected an admin.

[#FF0000]

The American Constitution doesn't cover private forum servers. Especially ones hosted, I believe, in Germany.

[Bud Struggle]

Again, I didn't try to enforce my opinion until I was provoked by your admin, who has many behavioural issues, which makes me wonder how he was elected an admin.

Only other Admins can vote in the election of an Admin. The general population doesn't have a voice in who becomes an Admin.

[#FF0000]

Only other Admins can vote in the election of an Admin. The general population doesn't have a voice in who becomes an Admin.

That's only how it's been for the last month or two.

The abortion thing has been discussed and voted to death back when the CC was around.

[Queercommie Girl]

That's only how it's been for the last month or two.

The abortion thing has been discussed and voted to death back when the CC was around.

I think the CC should be brought back in the interests of socialist democracy.

[anticap]

I don't think that banning abortion would do any good

That's putting it mildly. To ban abortion would be to enslave women as forced incubators.

[#FF0000]

I think the CC should be brought back in the interests of socialist democracy.

Yeah me too.

[Conquer or Die]

1) I noticed that many socialists are anti-religious. What are the points of conflict between socialism and religion, if any?

The generic "Religion" overlaps with socialism and is also antagonistic. Religion itself overlaps with superstition and stupidity with solid moral ethics and realizable claims.

Dialectical Materialism (by no means a requirement for Socialism) rejects spiritual beliefs. Atheism to many is a pre-requisite for Marxist Communism as a way for men to seize power uninhibited by tools perceived as being wielded by the ruling class.

There are two threats posed by "Religion" to socialism:

1.) The first is that there is no questioning on a collective level of everything. Thereby rejecting the capacity for individuals to think without inhibition and question without inhibition.

2.) That a hierarchy on earth would develop that would prevent equality of opportunity.


There is an important overlap with "Religion" and socialism:

Socialism (the leftist, proletarian version) sees itself as an equalizer of men to achieve to their potential and receive their means from doing so. The abstract, creative process that sets men apart from animals is linked with the appreciation of man to something higher.

Generally the Religious and the Left Wing of Socialism see good in helping the poor. Maybe for different reasons and with different methods. But they both see it as good.

2) Is patriotism an overrated quality? Is there something wrong with being proud of your nation and country, while you don't disrespect the others? Or does it cause rivalry between nations?

Patriotism as pride is pretty stupid. Being proud is generally an unhealthy quality because it creates complacency. It makes people adverse to proceeding with just qualities and future action.

Patriotism is dangerous because it gives one the assumption of a natural superiority. This might be Socialist enemy number 1.

Patriotism as a means of devotion - devotion to the cause of righteousness can be a good, if not the best thing. Sacrificing yourself for betterment and justice is a glorious act. Absent of nations and races, but fully compatible with just ideas. This is a positive patriotism, and it's the part of Patriotism that most people accept as right. This too has a defect - in that ultimate devotion may lead to unintended consequences or a blind dismissal of all available options.

3) What are your views on abortion (not in cases of rape or endangered health, but on request)? Is it a woman's legitimate right to terminate a pregnancy with no explanation needed? On the other hand, if socialism promotes equality, then doesn't a fetus (a genetically formed human) have the right to live, just as we do?

It is a utilitarian means to an end. It is a dangerous slippery slope. It's an example of robbing Peter to pay Paul. The conditions created for abortion will only become more clear after proletarian control. This is the best Socialist answer I can think of.

[mikelepore]

1) I'm a Catholic, but I still consider myself a socialist. It's because, for me, Catholic Church and religion are not the same thing. C.C. is a human organization, and it's undoubtedly true that its leaders have used their influence over the people to control them. But to condemn an entire religion because of that is just like to say that communism is evil because Stalin's USSR was a totalitarian regime. I don't blindly believe in everything written in the Bible, nor brainwashing by the C.C. (such as masturbation or premarital sex being a sin, lol). I don't take anything for granted, but I do believe in God.

I was educated as a Catholic during my childhood. I find it puzzling how some people accept part but not all. The main thing that defines the Catholic Church is that the principles and the organization are fully unified, because Jesus personally chose Peter to be the first pope, and the direct lineage from God Himself to the current pope is established. That no one is allowed to agree with just part of it is the church's primary concept. If the individual doesn't agree with that, then I'm not sure what being a Catholic means.