Asking for sex.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Does asking a woman for sex have patriarchal connotations?

[Invincible Summer]

Well it depends how one asks. If one asks "Do you wanna have sex?" I don't see how it does (although I'm sure some radical feminists would argue that heterosexual relations are inherently patriarchal). But if one asks "Will you have sex with me?" then that is sort of... not patriarchal, but asking them to serve you sexually rather than it being a mutual thing.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I can agree with that. I just pondered over the thought that asking for sex implies that whoever is being asked has an obligation towards sexual intercourse. A woman who is asked for a sexual favour may do so in a sense against her will, as she feels that that is a duty of hers, thanks to historical sociological factors.

I would be interested to hear a female perspective on this.

[Queercommie Girl]

How about if a woman asks a man for sex? Would that be wrong too, or would it be different?

I don't think obligation is involved. I could say "yes" but later on I can still change my mind.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Does asking a woman for sex have patriarchal connotations?

Short answer: it depends.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

How about if a woman asks a man for sex? Would that be wrong too, or would it be different?

I don't think obligation is involved. I could say "yes" but later on I can still change my mind.

I think its different given certain historical factors, such as the fact that up to a point in history, it was considered the norm for men to merely assume the right to have sex with their female counterparts, with their consent having no basis for argument - obviously this still happens in cases, but it is not accepted as fair generally speaking.

If you think about it, in terms of our "civilised society", the notion of a woman asking a man for sex is a relatively modern concept, that was probably much more uncommon than it is today.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out in my head is whether asking a woman for sex reflects the same notion that men can assume sexual right over a woman's body, the obvious conclusion is that it doesn't, as the woman can say no, but does it still carry the patriarchal notion that men can just assume that women will have sex with them, because they are a man and a woman is there to serve them?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I guess what I'm trying to figure out in my head is whether asking a woman for sex reflects the same notion that men can assume sexual right over a woman's body, the obvious conclusion is that it doesn't, as the woman can say no, but does it still carry the patriarchal notion that men can just assume that women will have sex with them?

Let me put it to you this way: you don't ask your property for permission to use it. Asking for something has the implicit assumption that the other party has the option of refusing.

Also, if you don't ask for sex, how the hell else would you get it?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Let me put it to you this way: you don't ask your property for permission to use it. Asking for something has the implicit assumption that the other party has the option of refusing.

Also, if you don't ask for sex, how the hell else would you get it?

Fair point. To be honest, I don't ask for sex. I feel weird doing it, it just happens when we both feel like it I guess.

[nickdlc]

I think many of the replies here suggest that women don't like sex and that's why we as men have to ask first. Women like it just as much as men do.

The reason most women don't ask for sex or rarely ask men out on dates is because they don't want to be seen as to "easy" or a "slut". A promiscuous women in our society is at the bottom of the social ladder and women are damn scared of this. So they pretend they don't like sex or that it doesn't matter to them. Men end up thinking "women don't like sex" I have to be polite, chivalrous always asking their opinion even to the point of asking for sex.

A man who asks for sex probably doesn't have much at all and invents reasons for the lack of it.
A man who assumes a women wants sex because she is biologically impeled to like it (like men are) probably has more and never asks "it just happens"

[Lenina Rosenweg]

It sounds like the negotiation stage part of any healthy relationship. Its not always possible to know or assume what your partner is thinking. Nothing wrong about asking or having to ask.

What would you do if the answer is "no", though?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

It sounds like the negotiation stage part of any healthy relationship. Its not always possible to know or assume what your partner is thinking. Nothing wrong about asking or having to ask.

What would you do if the answer is "no", though?

What would be the point in asking for sex if you wouldn't take no for an answer? Although I've heard of men pressuring women into sex when they've been refused it. Some of these women give in to this pressure; I would call that rape, on behalf of the man. I actually know of women who have been abused in this way, and felt that their claims were seen as inadequate, as the man asked and the woman eventually said yes, due to severe pressure. People said that she could've refused the male, but she feels that the pressure he imposed onto her led to her saying yes, to get out of a threatening situation.

The man's excuse may be that he got consent, through asking; the woman may have "given in" to pressure after the man had repeatedly asked. This is where I start to think that its difficult to say whether asking for sex is generally acceptable. Obviously many men would rightfully take no for an answer, but would the ones who don't and pressure the woman into it, until she finally says yes, be guilty of a violation? Or would the fact that they had asked and got a yes, reluctant as the woman may have been, constitute as a legitimate "asking for sex"?

Personally I would say not, and I think that this concept of consent is not legitimate, which leads me to think that asking for sex will carry connotations that violate woman's rights. I wish it were not the case, but I think that a woman shouldn't have to be asked whether a man can have sex with her, it just doesn't feel right to me.

[this is an invasion]

facepalm

[Quail]

It sounds like the negotiation stage part of any healthy relationship. Its not always possible to know or assume what your partner is thinking. Nothing wrong about asking or having to ask.

What would you do if the answer is "no", though?

I would expect someone to say, "Okay, if you want to wait, we'll wait."
If they pushed the issue too much, I would stop seeing them.

Although I've heard of men pressuring women into sex when they've been refused it. Some of these women give in to this pressure; I would call that rape, on behalf of the man. I actually know of women who have been abused in this way, and felt that their claims were seen as inadequate, as the man asked and the woman eventually said yes, due to severe pressure. People said that she could've refused the male, but she feels that the pressure he imposed onto her led to her saying yes, to get out of a threatening situation.

In that case, the man hasn't really asked. If he was truly asking, he would take "no" for an answer. I don't know that I would call it rape, but it is definitely abuse and could very easily have similar psychological impacts as rape.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I would expect someone to say, "Okay, if you want to wait, we'll wait."
If they pushed the issue too much, I would stop seeing them.



In that case, the man hasn't really asked. If he was truly asking, he would take "no" for an answer. I don't know that I would call it rape, but it is definitely abuse and could very easily have similar psychological impacts as rape.

Exactly, that's where my qualm comes from.

Facepalms aside, doesn't the concept of asking for sex seem ridiculous when you compare it to instances of men using the asking of sex from a woman as a route towards the sexual domination over the said woman?

If you have to ask a woman for sex in the first place, doesn't that apply to the fact that she probably expressed a desire for not having sex in the first place? If a woman does not express a desire in the first place, what gives a man the right to ask for it?

[Invader Zim]

Well it depends how one asks. If one asks "Do you wanna have sex?" I don't see how it does (although I'm sure some radical feminists would argue that heterosexual relations are inherently patriarchal). But if one asks "Will you have sex with me?" then that is sort of... not patriarchal, but asking them to serve you sexually rather than it being a mutual thing.

What a load of shit. Saying "do you want to have sex" is no more demanding sexual servicing than saying "do you fancy having sex with me?" And if you read some weird sexially explotative message into the latter then I suggest you need to get laid a whole lot more.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out in my head is whether asking a woman for sex reflects the same notion that men can assume sexual right over a woman's body, the obvious conclusion is that it doesn't, as the woman can say no, but does it still carry the patriarchal notion that men can just assume that women will have sex with them, because they are a man and a woman is there to serve them?

Why does asking assume that they will say yes? Have you ever actually tried? You would have to be a cock-sure (no pun intended) piece of work to assume that they would. In fact, I would say that the majority of men think the precise opposite.

But of course this is all academic because this entire notion of a spoken act of comfirmation is at odds with reality. Events tend to take their own course. For example, if you are at some form of social gathering and there is someone you fancy, you don't simply ask them. You chat to them, read body language, and based on the responce progress from there. And if you are going to ask them to sleep with you, then things tend to be more subtle. For example, the last time in my instance I was invited to hers for 'a cup of tea'. Similarly I have invited a partner back for 'toast', that is pretty much the nearest i have come to asking for sex, while outside of a relationship. And when in a relationship, sex tends to just happen, through various other more personal mechaninisms of communication.


Indeed this notion that communication, in relationships especially when it comes to something as intimate as this, is conducted via the oral medium, is nonsense and at odds with reality. Indeed, even on an oral level, communication is not anywhere near as simple as "do you fancy a shag", but is far more subtle and based on allusion and inference. At that point we get to this question, though I'll take it as a rejection of advances as opposed to the words specifically:

What would you do if the answer is "no", though?

Roll over and go to sleep.

[Adi Shankara]

It really does depend. my "missus" doesn't like to be asked, she just wants me to do it whenever I want to do it because she thinks that it's boring that way and not passionate; I remember the first time we did do it I sheepishly asked for it and she said that it wasn't romantic or passionate, just boring and mechanical.

but of course, that's not for everyone, and some people would probably claim rape as you'd expect were it to be with anyone else who doesn't have that provocation to the whole dom/sub shit. it bothered me too at first also.

idk.

[Technocrat]

I think many of the replies here suggest that women don't like sex and that's why we as men have to ask first. Women like it just as much as men do

Not true at all, not according to any psychological or scientific study I've ever seen.

Women have the whole pregnancy thing to worry about. For men, sex is all upside. So, women are understandably more hesitant when it comes to sex.

Women do not think about sex as much or desire sex as frequently. They are also less concerned with the duration of sex itself, contrary to popular myth.

Most women I have talked to about this think that asking for sex is a bad idea. It seems desperate and could potentially make the woman feel like she is being used. I think from a woman's perspective, by the time you have sex with her you're supposed to have enough of an emotional connection to be able to tell that she wants it.

[Adi Shankara]

Not true at all, not according to any psychological or scientific study I've ever seen.

The scientific studies I'd imagine are biased, all in an attempt to reinforce the idea of women as desexualized and to make sex into a dispensable commodity, and reinforce western ideals of virginity and "purity".

to anyone who says women don't enjoy sex as much as men have never been with a woman.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

The scientific studies I'd imagine are biased, all in an attempt to reinforce the idea of women as desexualized and to commodity sex, and reinforce western ideals of virginity and "purity".

to anyone who says women don't enjoy sex as much as men have never been with a woman.

Women may enjoy sex as much as men, but studies that lead to the fact that men are more drawn to sex than women are, hardly surprising, are they?

Women may enjoy it as much, but the historical connotations with regards to sexuality, between men and women, are different and need to be addressed imo.

[Technocrat]

The scientific studies I'd imagine are biased, all in an attempt to reinforce the idea of women as desexualized and to make sex into a dispensable commodity, and reinforce western ideals of virginity and "purity".

Typical response - just dismiss anything you don't agree with as being biased! It's so easy to do.

to anyone who says women don't enjoy sex as much as men have never been with a woman.

You have obviously never been in a relationship for more than 6 months. One can always make hasty generalizations.

Biologically speaking, women can only have one or a few children every 9 months. A man can have hundreds during that same period. Natural selection means that we are programmed to maximize our reproductive success. So, this partially explains why men desire sex more frequently and place greater importance on sex in a relationship.