The Taliban

[RedCeltic]

I've recently read that the Taliban is also located in China, Russia, some formar Soviet republics, India, etc... and even is against moderate Middle east nations like Saudi Ariabia for example. Therefore I truly don't see this as strictly a problem for the United States.

Not to mention that we are all affected by world terrorism. Unless that is if you never travel on bus train plane or car.

[Moskitto]

Actually the Taliban they're refering to are a students union who've simply taken over the government in Afghanistan and the stuff they do there is sick.

They're going to sentance some aid workers to death for having copies of the bible.
They chucked all the women out of schools and colleges
They don't let women be treated by male doctors
They make women cover all their skin and eyes and have whippings for showing the slightest inch of skin
They make rooms with women in them paint over their windows black
They make women walking down the street silently
They destroy historic artifacts because they're an "Insult to islam"
They executed the former president for not agreeing with them

They're basicly Nazi-Germany mk2 replacing jewish descrimination with discrimination against women.

I reckon in about 10 or so years they'll soon put all the women into concentration camps where the attractive ones have their eggs extracted and are raped day and night, then the ugly ones will simply be impregnated to produce more of the Taliban killing machine and finally the world will wake up to how sick the things that go on over there are.

I'm sorry about going over the top but Overthrowing the Taliban is probably the only cause I'd be willing to die for.

[drunktank]

don't take for sure
that Talibans did
the terrorist attack.

[vox]

"They don't let women be treated by male doctors"

And they won't allow women to work outside of the house, so there are no women doctors. This means no medical care for women.

vox

[Moskitto]

I think i'll put 2 more pages on my communist site that i should finish by next week.

1. Free Women

2. Free Afghanistan

[RedCeltic]

Drunktank... the protected Bin Laden... who the terrorists who have been arrested all have been linked to.

I've heard some awful things about them... but only in fragements... if what you say about them is true... they make Fascists look compassonite. I admit that the first time I heard about them was when they destroyed all those Buddist statues.

Vox you say they don't let women out of their houses? That is quite backwards! I remember reading that some Islamic groups had been like this many years ago, but have since become more moderate.

We're treadding a fine line here between human rights and religious expression. We can't expect to rush in and change the entire culture... We saw the West rush in and try and change the Middle East in the crusades of the middle ages and the Europeans commited barborous acts upon the people there. Now they are calling for a holy war against the infidels... which means us in the west and moderates in the east.

I think people have the right to their own beliefs... however when they force those beliefs on the entire population then that becomes a human rights issue. Religion can be a good thing for some people, but state sponsored religion is not good for the people as a whole.

Also what you said Moskitto "Overthrowing the Taliban is probably the only cause I'd be willing to die for. " Is words apart from the mindless lust for revenge I have heard.

I suppose I'm not the pacifict I had thought... war in my mind has been about money and land. Death is quite regretful, but if war is enacted with the setement you have displayed... in my mind it's hard to call it wrong. This evil should not be allowed to flourish.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 12:57 am on Sep. 16, 2001)

[DaNatural]

it is quite shocking but the things moskitto has said is true, my girlfriend is from afghanistan so i have an almost first hand idea of how brutal there leaders are. there was actually a special about them on cnn about 2 weeks ago, and now this happens. on top of what mos said, they use their soccer feild as an execution ground, women are not allowed schooling after i believe the age of ten or so, no make up, basically they are sub human. there interpretation of the Qu'ran is extremely distorted and dispicable similarly to osama. these people in the country need help and one of their chances for hope has been shattered by two events. the alleged killing of Shah Masood, who is the leader of the northern alliance the only militants fighting against the taliban, with him dead noone will stop them. and also now that the u.s.a is getting involved the whole country seems doomed. now as we look back at the inhuman acts over the past weeks, we see that that sick government in australia didnt allow those poor afghan immigrants to land. on top of that iran has shut its borders along with pakistan i believe. its almost like a death trap. peace

[pce]

yes, unfortunately the hezbolah of iran and taliban of afghanistan have been at odds for different reasons. and unfortunately, iran is responding in a way that hurts the citizens. it seems that everything is turning out against the women of afghanistan, it is needless to say, terrible.

[vox]

Just to clarify, I meant that women cannot hold jobs. I believe that women are free to leave the house, though I seem to recall hearing that they had to have a male relative with them. I'm not certain on that last point, though.

From what I know, this is quite a change for Afghani women, who were able to be doctors and teachers and the like before the Taliban too over.

vox

[Moskitto]

Actually what I said about dying to overtrow the Taliban is a bit of an exageration but I have felt that way for a long time even before the WTC bombing.

I wouldn't quite be willing to die but I think that the west is being way too soft on them and I would support military action to oust them for power.

[Nickademus]

Quote: from drunktank on 10:27 pm on Sep. 15, 2001
don't take for sure
that Talibans did
the terrorist attack.

drunktank there had been no mention in redceltic's post that the taliban was responsible. he was simply trying to become informed about the taliban

the taliban is extremely oppressive. and i agree redceltic that there is a fine line between human rights abuses and freedom of religious expression but i definately think that this situation is too atrocious to be allowed. women are treated worse then animals in afghanastan. many efforts have been made toc hange the situation but it is a long battle. the women themselves have to believe that they are worthy of respect. unfotunately as a white woman i cannot tell them that because they dismiss it as me trying to convert them (although my religion is probably not even known to them). women from afghanistan who have faced similar porblems are the only ones that can help them overcome the feelings they have been taught. its true that the extreme leftist view of the quaran (sorry if i screwed up the spelling) is largely to blame. should we allow these human rights violations simply because they are surrounded in a shroud of religion. NO. i believe that believe whatever you want but when human beings are being denied access to the very rights that they have as a human being, then religion has overstepped its bounds.

i know very little about the taliban but this alone makes me hate them from the bottom of my heart (especially because i am a woman).

[jose lopez]

SHIT IM ANGRY TODAY SOOO...FUCK THE TALIBAN FUCK BUSH FUCK WAR AND IF THERES A WW3 GOING ON FUCK US ALL CUZZ WE PERMITED THIS TO HAPEN LETS MAKE BARRICADES IF WE SURVIVE THEN WE WILL START A WORLD BASED ON THE FREEDOM, SOCIALISM, REAL EQUALITY AND ALL THAT SHIT WE TALK SO MUCH ABOUT, LETS MAKE A NEW WORLD ON CE AND FOR ALL--.................thid I exagerate??????? sorry im a bit sensitive

[Guest]

hey guys!!
calm down! i just want to remind u that this taliban was made by the u.s. during the attempts of the ussr to invade afganistan in 1979, the u.s. funded ,supported , and trained the guerilla fighters of taliban, which makes it clear whose fault is what we face now!!! the u.s gave many terrorists asylum as well as criticizing some countries for their violations of human rights in dealing with terrorists, so what the u.s. is facing today is a normal result for their policies! taliban is 100% american- made.
i want to correct something about the issue of educating women, the problem about educating women is that afganistan can't afford it because they can't even feed their people, so , normally, they won't be able to educate them!!

[RedCeltic]

Good point, if the United States didn't have this overwelming fear of growing world communism we wouldn't be facing this today. We funded these guys and then when the USSR fell we pulled out and left them to their own devices... gave little to no aid, and... well what do you expect? But you can't change the past, and we can't let these atroccities continue.

As Nickadermus said... I never said the Taliban was responsible, but they have given the terrorist refuge. I know next to nothing about what's going on over there... so please don't think I'm preaching about them... I did hear about them before this attack, and some fragement about what they had done... but I didn't know anything in deapth, nor the extent of their human rights abuses. We had little right to step in before now... so we can't back down.

[Moskitto]

SHIT IM ANGRY TODAY SOOO...FUCK THE TALIBAN FUCK BUSH FUCK WAR AND IF THERES A WW3 GOING ON FUCK US ALL CUZZ WE PERMITED THIS TO HAPEN LETS MAKE BARRICADES IF WE SURVIVE THEN WE WILL START A WORLD BASED ON THE FREEDOM, SOCIALISM, REAL EQUALITY AND ALL THAT SHIT WE TALK SO MUCH ABOUT, LETS MAKE A NEW WORLD ON CE AND FOR ALL--.................thid I exagerate??????? sorry im a bit sensitive

That's a serious point if there is a WW3, If there is the people who survive would have to use socialism no matter how much capitalist propaganda they've been brought up on and I challenge anyone who expects about 500 people to survive and reproduce through capitalism to explain how.

Or perhaps we'll put ourselves into cryogenic stasis then we'll be woken up by aliens about 100,000 years from now and we'll be in the "new world order" and fighting for earths independence.

Or maybe not.

[Nickademus]

Quote: from Guest on 6:08 pm on Sep. 16, 2001
hey guys!!
calm down! i just want to remind u that this taliban was made by the u.s. during the attempts of the ussr to invade afganistan in 1979, the u.s. funded ,supported , and trained the guerilla fighters of taliban, which makes it clear whose fault is what we face now!!! the u.s gave many terrorists asylum as well as criticizing some countries for their violations of human rights in dealing with terrorists, so what the u.s. is facing today is a normal result for their policies! taliban is 100% american- made.
i want to correct something about the issue of educating women, the problem about educating women is that afganistan can't afford it because they can't even feed their people, so , normally, they won't be able to educate them!!

i understand that they can't feed most of the population. the point in issue is that education is received by men but not by women

[vox]

Here is an excerpt from Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia by Ahmed Rashid. It gives some very interesting background on bin Laden and the militant Islamic movement. As it says, "None of the intelligence agencies involved wanted to consider the consequences of bringing together thousands of Islamic radicals from all over the world."

http://www.public-i.org/excerpts_01_091301.htm

I think it's very important for people to know things like this.

vox

(Edited by vox at 3:25 pm on Sep. 16, 2001)

[Chief Rebel Angel]

nickademus, i would just like to point out that the holy quran is more moderate than u think.,.. it's the people's interpretation of it thats messed up... islam does not discreminate between men and women, taliban does... did u know that one of the prophets wife was one of the richest merchants in the arabian peninsula... the prophet did not even have the slightest mention that she should leave her work because its originally allowed for ppl to work (women and men)... woment also served in wars... i'm sorry if i seem a little bit extra defensive... maybe i even didnt clearly understand what u were saying.. forgive me if i misunderstood...

[Moskitto]

hey guys!!
calm down! i just want to remind u that this taliban was made by the u.s. during the attempts of the ussr to invade afganistan in 1979, the u.s. funded ,supported , and trained the guerilla fighters of taliban, which makes it clear whose fault is what we face now!!! the u.s gave many terrorists asylum as well as criticizing some countries for their violations of human rights in dealing with terrorists, so what the u.s. is facing today is a normal result for their policies! taliban is 100% american- made.
i want to correct something about the issue of educating women, the problem about educating women is that afganistan can't afford it because they can't even feed their people, so , normally, they won't be able to educate them!!

I thought we help the Muhja Hadin sp? or something like that who were fighting the Taliban after they were fighting the Russians.

I could get my brother to explain it because he's done loads of study on the cold war but I don't really think he'd be willing to post on a forum of socialists when he's a member of the conservative party.

[Chief Rebel Angel]

this is not necessarly a socialist furom... umm.. isnt it?!?