Refuse Navo millitairy service

[Just Red]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here but i've been reading the posts on this site a long time.
But happend to me this day just made me sick.
We're from Holland and have followed the news on the WTC bombing very carefully.
But Yesterdaynight my mother asked me what I would do if America starts a war against Afganistan because of the Taliban and Bin Laden.
As a Member of The Nato Holland wil send troops for sure , so my mother asked me if I would go to.

Well I sayd her that I would never go killing innocent afganistan people just for America's bloody revenge.
But my dad become very angry and sayd that if there will be war he will go to kill all of the afgahnistan "basterds."

He also sayd that Europe must close the borders and throw al the "black and Arabian fuckkers"out
He blamed them for al the nastyness in the world.
I imagened my dad as the new Adolf Hitler.
And the bad thing is that after the WTC-disaster everyone brain-washed by capitalistic propaganda thinks so.

Will this be the signal for a new Nazi-plague?
And Shouldn't we all refuse service?, cause this war will be a masacre of innocent arabian people only for the revenge of America.

Our opinion please.

[RedCeltic]

on another BB I saw a post from someone from Scotland who posted something like:
" NATO warplanes in the sky
Terrorist Pukes Prepare to die
In we come with snake and nape
Allah create but we cremate"
and then " P.S. America save some for the RAF"

There's alot of this sentement in the USA as well as other NATO nations and I think it's all the wrong reasons to serve, and the wong reasons to support NATO. It will not be revenge for the US nor the west, it is a reason however to rid the world of a horrific extremist group who left alone may grow to be too powerful to be dealt with. It's like we have not seen since WWII, and we don't want to wait too long and end up fighting another war like that. (for I'm sure if we don't get rid of them now, we will fight them anyway in the future)

[vox]

Howard Zinn--Violence Doesn't Work:

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0915-02.htm

That pretty much sums it up for me.

vox

PS That site has quite a few essays published on Saturday, 15 that speak out against military action. There's some good reading there.

(Edited by vox at 9:17 am on Sep. 16, 2001)

[Moskitto]

I don't think a complete destructive war where we kill everyone there is a good idea. I do however think a war where we seek only to remove the Taliban from power causing as little damage as posible.

[Nickademus]

just red the same thing is happening everywhere. i don't want to discuss what happened with my farther (i don't live in the same city as my parents so i can easily avoid it) because i'm afraid i'll get the same reaction. already in canada people are burning mosques, attacking muslims etc . . .its really quite disgusting. we are all mourning because so many innocent people were killed and then we turn around and accuse and hurt more innocent people. what hypocrites. unfortunately bush and the US gov't are somewhat advocating this kind of reaction. to this day we don't even know if afghanistan, muslims, bin laden who ever is behind this terror attack.

as for world war iii all we can do is wait. its entirely possible. fortunately afghanistan doesn't have nuclear fire power (which i'm sure will be a relief to many) but they do have biological weapons. having said that however, i don't believe another war on the same magnitude as either world war will occur. if anything we are looking at another gulf war situation, simply because afghanastan is not powerful enough to withstand the united states without help from other countries. pakistan (last i heard) is still considering whether it is going to help the united states. if that happens, chances are afghanastan will be "defeated" fairly quickly.

i fear there will be another large scale war but i really don't think we have to worry about another world war.

as leftists we have to help people past their feelings of rage. anger is one of the steps in grieving. we need to get them past that stage and allow them to mourn properly. and i agree with the idea of refusing service. unfortunately i know some people in the military in canada, and frankly they don't have much choice, so i know they will all go when told to. if you have the opportunity to stand up against it, i send you my energy because it will be a very tough but worthwhile battle.

i hope that if war does commence that we stand together and protest the war. unfortunately, because of the current sentiment around the world, we will face a lot of ridicule and harassment ourselves. but we must stand together

[RedCeltic]

I think Moskitto expressed exactly how I feal. You know me enough to know I'm no "war monger" and while I was filled with greaf and then rage... I'm not reacting that way. Watching C-Span I feal this will be an action to capture Bin Laden and remove the Taliban from power. I also think many war mongering fools who are talking about war and blowing up brown people will be disappointed. There will be militery action, of that be assured... however a large part will be diplomatic.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 12:40 pm on Sep. 16, 2001)

[Chief Rebel Angel]

i also say what moskitto says... afghanistan is already destroyed, bombings will only kill more innocent ppl (as most of u said) and further destroy the destroyed... pointless...

[RedCeltic]

I heard someone on C-Span.. ( I don't know who I was in the other room when I heard it) say, " The USSR bombed them into the bronze age.. so if America wants to bomb them into the stone age the don't have much work" Anyway my point is while I support a NATO action (not just an American one) I do not support an out and out war with one of the poorest nations on earth.

[gooddoctor]

i knew from the first hours that those fucking red-eyed yanks (sorry) would be screaming for blood. any person calling for revenge obviously has no concept of what war actually is. it's not a movie, you don't get given free morphine before you go honourably into battle, there's no lounging about having barbecues and no beer and the chance that you'll get taken out by strategic missiles is more likely than any close-quaters combat. war is brutal and bloody, there is no celebration even for the victors, people actually fucking die don't you know! i hope that anyone who wants revenge has to mete it out themselves so that before they die they will realise the errors of their ways and how pointless their lives have been - the world could use a few less of these kinds of monsters. noone wins in war and, apart from the fact that the prospect of large scale war terrifies the bejesus out of me, that is why i am a pacifist and why i will never fight in any bourgeois yankee war/crusade.

(Edited by gooddoctor at 6:35 pm on Sep. 17, 2001)

[kingbee]

why bomb one of the poorest nations on earth? itll just make it worse! unless the us goes in and sets up a puppet goverment. there is no definete proof that bin laden did it anyway, and why go and bomb afghanistan for it? its like a uk terrosit bombim the us then the us attackin the uk- its not as if they love and cherish him or anything. the us helped put the taliban in anyway, they gave guns to bin laden to get the soviets out- why turn around when things arent going their way? many afghanistanis arent happy with the us anyway because the us said they would help them, but have left them in the shit.