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Hi everyone,
I've been reading all your posts on the terrorism in the US and it seems like some need to review what principles underlie their socialist ideology.
Are you for humanity or not?
Do you respect life or not?
You cannot profess to hold socialist ideologies for the greater good of humanity and then speak of the loss of any human life as a 'positive' in any terms.
Some of you have spoken of whether or not the victims were 'innocent' or not, as though this will be the criteria for deciding who 'deserved' death and who didn't. If this is your thinking, I'm glad you feel so confident about your perception of complete strangers that you can freely draw that arbitrary line in the sand. Let's hope your fate is never in the hands of a stranger ready to condemn you with the same arbitrariness.
Please define 'innocent' for me - please indicate the exact moment at which it becomes permissible to take another's life for one's ideology.
I put it to you all that on some scale of justice, none of us are innocents. I put it to you that even if it could be properly defined, it is completely irrelevant to the fundamental principle of respect for life.
For those who are anti-capitalist (myself included) - can you not see that individuals trying to simply live have lost their lives as a result of decades of US government foreign policy?
Can you not see that violence is the lowest means - that the great defining quality of a human is their reason - why is it most are so reluctant to apply their reason to any given problem?
Some introspection is needed here - what are your principles exactly, and can you support them with authoritative argument?
It is very easy to become a hypocrite - America is the perfect example - 'murder is wrong unless it is committed by the State' etc.
For anyone who has read about Che the person, the overwhelming quality that makes such a powerful impression is his inviolable humanity. Let us never lose ours.
It cannot but be supportive, socialist, communist or whatever you want to call it. Does nature, and the human species with it, have much time left to survive in the absence of such change? Very little time. Who will be the builders of that new world? The
Perhaps I spoke too soon in my last post about why I came here. THIS (above post) is what I originally thought I'd be getting I came here.
p.s. LOVE the name. Hope you bathe more often than the 'original' Chancho.
(Edited by rebel7609 at 1:17 am on Sep. 14, 2001)
i am against violence and i am against what happened. naturally i am also against everything that the US has done. i believe in humanity and how sacred life really is
i agree i with what you said and i think you will find that many of us here also feel the same way.
I AM THE PERFECT ME!
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.15
I was wondering where people stand on abortion Pro-life, pro-choice? no opinion?
Should abortion be repealed?
Is it against human life for a mother to abort her baby when knowing that without intervention a birth will occur in 9 months period?
Is a human life considered part of the world already, even though it has not been born but can be seen on a sonogram picture and has a heartbeat, etc?
Does it have the right to life also.
Is abortion the killing of a human life?
Che Guevara wannabe
Rebel ... thanks ... and don't worry, I believe in the 'virtues' of personal hygiene :-)
Nickademus ... I am sure that you are absolutely right in saying that most people here would not support terrorism. I think it is still imperative to challenge one's own thoughts on any issue - no matter what end of the spectrum they may lie at. Complacency and absolutism are great dangers for all of us. But of course, I did hope to particularly challenge those expressing any degree of support of these attacks.
I invite those who do hold such views to offer a reasoned argument in support of their ideas - hopefully without fear of censorship.
one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
Che Guevara wannabe
Chancho Thank you for your wise words it brightens my day to see that there are some true socialists on this bb who understand the principles of socialism and humanity.
In Solidarity,
RC
What the fuck are they suppose to do? Allow the US to continue slaughtering THEM FOREVER?
Che Guevara wannabe
Hi 'guest'
Asking people their opinion on such a sensitive, emotive and personal topic as abortion is probably only going to incite the usual arguments.
However, it is a very good question in terms of challenging people's commitment to a principle of respect for life - so I'll offer you my personal opinion. But please note that I respect the right to free thought - so in saying what I believe, I am in NO WAY criticising any alternative views...
It is my humble opinion that regardless of the circumstances of conception, the overriding consideration in a decision to abort is respect for life.
I think that speculating as to the point where cells become a 'life' is the height of self-delusion and justification. Obviously, human life must start somewhere and no one can draw a line indicating where mere cells become a human being. There is either conception or there is not. Abortion at any stage of pregnancy does not kill a cluster of 'cells' or a potential human being, it kills an actual human being in the process of development - what point of development that happens to be does not alter or justify the fact that a life is being ended. I do think that those who try to support an abortion argument with this kind of argument (when is a life a life?) must come up with a much, much more convincing foundation than this if they are to be taken seriously.
So it follows from what I've already said that I simply cannot profess to believe in a principle and then have exceptions to that principle. Hence, I do not believe that abortion can be ethically or logically justified - unless the mother's life is at risk. But as for how one should choose which life is more important in that situation - that is a whole other topic.
For those of you who are thinking 'what about rape?', 'what about...' whatever, I feel that no matter how adverse such circumstances are, the obligation to protect life is above all such considerations.
Unrealistically idealistic? Not if we truly have respect.
...and one person's 'reason' is another person's empty rhetoric
It cannot but be supportive, socialist, communist or whatever you want to call it. Does nature, and the human species with it, have much time left to survive in the absence of such change? Very little time. Who will be the builders of that new world? The
What about the respect for their lives in the middle-east? Why doesn't anybody care about them? Why dosen't the media parade those peoples dead family memebers who are relentlessly bombed on a daily basis over the TV's airwaves around the world? Why does'nt the leaders here go to services to mourn those innocent dead that they kill for as little as something as oil or over an ideology such as communism - twice - twice!!!! IN WAR! TWICE IN THIS CENTURY! TWICE in about 10 years. When are those people going to get justice? What about their humanity? Don't they count? I don't see anybody appalled about that. In fact, not one fucking post about the bombings of Iraq's innocent dead. you fucking hypocrites.
Che Guevara wannabe
Guest,
When I speak of respect for life there is absolutely no distinction made in my mind based on nationality or ethnicity etc. I totally agree with you that the media bias is outrageous - we living in the 'West' are subject to daily onslaughts of propaganda about the Middle East and it is up to all of us to educate ourselves as to the reality. But the propaganda goes both ways - based on the seeming 'indifference' of Western media to deaths in the Middle East, you assume that we here don't know any better and feel the same way. You are profoundly wrong.
It cannot but be supportive, socialist, communist or whatever you want to call it. Does nature, and the human species with it, have much time left to survive in the absence of such change? Very little time. Who will be the builders of that new world? The
you know, i'm really sick and fu$king tired of telling people that i care about all HUMANS. I do what i can to speak out about the various atrocities that are happening around the world. why don't you people read some of the other posts and you'd bloody well realize this.
please don't jump to the conclusion that i (amongst other) only care about the lives of americans. i'm not american and frankly i like to distinguish myself from america as much as possible (i'm canadian). don't make assumptions, they are only making an a55 of yourself.
I AM THE PERFECT ME!
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.15
I understand how you feal Nickadermus as a New Yorker I'm fairly close to your countery and have visited it a few times. I have also met with some Canadians either in New York, or abroad. Canadians always seem to make that distinctiion prominant and it is quite understandable. I am an American but I am not proud of some of the things we have done in the past, and I believe in working for a better tommorow, for a better world community one not based on world Capiatalism. I am not so blind as to not see that we brought this upon ourselves. People are too filled with rage right now to talk any sence into them. I have always tried to show people the mistakes of our actions in the Middle East... maybe when some time passes some people will realize. However I think it's an up hill battle. Also while I remain proud to be a New Yorker, and think the Mayor is doing a good job, I think he has done some awful things in the past. EX: his idea of housing for the homeless is putting them in jail.
(Edited by RedCeltic at 11:01 pm on Sep. 13, 2001)
In Solidarity,
RC
