honey, I shrunk the WTC

[drunktank]

Are the victims innocent?

How innocent is someone who
closes his eyes when his country
bombs Iraq/Serbia/Afghanistan etc?

14 hours ago the army of the
"innocent victims" bombed women
and children in South Iraq.

Everyone is shoked for
what happened yesterday.
But where are the shoked people
the last 10 years?

[pce]

under that rational, everyone in the u.s. should be killed. what do you mean?

[MrPebbles]

i agree with you drunktank completeley how can we morn internationally for a few thousand innocents when after years of american wars we morn nothing but the loss of the brave soldiers, well they can fuck off how is a soldier brave when he obeys orders or goes to prison? how ever i am becoming sick of the situation these bastard terrorists have created they have started an ongoing murder of the innocent if they hadn't done what they did this wouldn't happen but i do not know how we can be so blind.
american eyes american eyes we view the world through american eyes
there aint no shelter here how relevant is that!
peace out
fighting for peace is like fucking for your virginity!

[Chief Rebel Angel]

did u know that some 30 palistinians were killed since the bombings by israeli forces? most ppl dont know.. most ppl dont care... most americans i know r arrogant and ignorant... most arabs i know r arrogant and ignorant... woo hoo we all goin DOOOOWWN!

[drunktank]

hypocrites,

you cry 3 days in the tv
for 10.000 people
but you don't give a
penny for the 1.500.000
people you killed in Iraq.

hypocrites, hypocrites, hypocrites.

[Nickademus]

Quote: from drunktank on 1:03 am on Sep. 15, 2001
hypocrites,

you cry 3 days in the tv
for 10.000 people
but you don't give a
penny for the 1.500.000
people you killed in Iraq.

hypocrites, hypocrites, hypocrites.

once again i hope to all hell that you aren't talking to us. and we can't make generalizations. we get pissed off when people make generalizations about us leftists and then we do the same. who's being hypocritical?

[espanola82]

hey drunk tank- maybe you should discuss your political views while sober. the country is not in "shok" as you so intellectually spell it- the nation, YOUR nation, MY nation, has been attacked by TERRORISTS... last I checked, these sick fucks are not military persons fighting a WAR for a particular cause, but muslim fundamentalist just looking for their god by killing thousands of innocent civilians. these oppressed people are killing out of HATRED, not war. The mere fact that you would compare the killing in arab nations to that which occurred on Tuesday in New York and Washington is ignorant and rash of you to say. Instead of siding with people who kill their own countrymen because of opposing religious beliefs, maybe you should side with a country that you are free to say whatever you want and believe whatever you want. Open your eyes and and stop talking about things you know nothing about. Che Guevara hated Americans in a time when communism was untried and and beautiful to imagine. Now, decades later, we know from seeing China, Cuba, and Russia that communism does not work, therefore go to school, learn how to spell, read some history, and enjoy and take advantage of the democracy you live in. and, one more thing, if the US is such a terrible place, move to Afghanistan where they kill women for talking to men besides their husbands, where there’s shit in the street (literally) and where justice is unknown. You would last a second there. So instead of sulking over those poor innocent people in countries you know absolutely nothing about, go to your local library and read why the US is fighting for Israel, and be sure to check out the fact that during the cold war the US supported and helped Afghanistan and BIN LADEN financially, militarily, and by providing training for bin Ladens men only to have the asshole turn around and terrorize the US. So, drunkard, get away from the bottle and read some more, I would personally suggest a book about Che and maybe your learn a thing or to about this great man. He fought in what he believed in, left his home in Argentina where he could have had a safe long life working as a doctor, to fight for OTHER countries… he fought for a cause, and put himself on the front lines and dedicated his life to his struggle for freedom in Latin America. Bin Laden is a Hitler jr. brainwashing his poor followers into killing themselves for him. Maybe he should get out of his caves and fight instead of using daddy’s money to kill for a living.

[RedCeltic]

espanola82, Drunktank is from Greece.

I just want to know why everyone thinks that the United States acts alone. Sure the United States has always been at the forefront for the west... but do you truly think the United States was the only Army sitting in the sand in Saudi Arabia? I don't mean do discriminate against anyone's age... but Drunktank your 15... I remember the day we bombed Bagdad and I thought it was awful! It was war for money! The brutality of the monster Sadam Husain and the awful Bath party in Iraq against Kiwatti citizens was used to rationalized bombarding a city. But you somehow think we are all callus.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:26 pm on Sep. 14, 2001)

[espanola82]

i dont care what free democratic nation drunk is from- he's a lucky kid...especially because he must not know anyone in the attack on tuesday(i assume, i may be wrong). a firend and my cousin were both involved, and unhurt thankfully so drunk, don't even come to me with your nonsense. i forgive you for your youthful ignorance though... its not your fault. everyone, keep an open mind and take care... life is short and very unpredictable, so do good, love a lot, and be courageous and beautiful like El che'. peace

[RedCeltic]

espanola82, you are correct. Drunktank should be thankful for not having anyone involved. I know some people still missing, some who thankfuly have lived, and a few dead. None of my family has been involved thankfuly. I am a Socialist, but like you think democracy is a beutiful thing and something worth preserving. An Attack on New York and the USA is an attack on western civilization and democracy as we know it. If some of these people knew a bit more about Bin Ladan and (forgive my spelling) the Talaban they wouldn't be so quick to defend them.

Jurhael started a thread where he posted an interesting article I think Drunktank should read. Here is the link again for ya...


http://www.livejournal.com/talkpost.bml?it...itemid=10676643

(Edited by RedCeltic at 11:22 pm on Sep. 14, 2001)

[pce]

redceltic, i disagree. the attack on america was not an attack on democracy. instead it was an attack on the lack of it. now i'm sure you know based on my previous posts that i am in no way shape or form promoting the murders. i won't get into that. but i hate it when people say it was an attack on democracy and freedom. no one hates democracy and freedom. the attacks (however ridiculous, inhumane, monstrous, stupid, terrible, etc.) were an attack on america's actions. however, the ignorant murderers, chose to take it out with violence (you know how much i am against that). and not only that, they chose to take it out with violence on thousands of people who have nothing to do with america's decisions in foreign policy. innocent people. please don't say it was an act against democracy. against humanity? yes, against human beings.

[El Che de Boca Jrs]

I agree with pce. The destruction of the WTC was really the only good that came out of this but innocent people who have nothing to do with commerce (and the ones who do are simply brainwashed and shouldnt be blamed for being ignorant of the US's atrocities) shouldnt have to suffer for it. Besides, seing as how Bin-Ladin is a multi-BILLIONARE, we know that the terrorists (if they are led by Bin-Ladin) arent against capitalism, they just hate Americans. Lets not forget that Bin-Ladin also led Arab armies against the USSR.

[RedCeltic]

PCE... I suppose your right, and I'm gust reflecting some of the languege I'm hearing around me. forgive my ignorance.
what you said is true... no one is attacking democracy... and that's just an ultra partiotistic way of expressing it...

(Edited by RedCeltic at 11:59 pm on Sep. 14, 2001)

[RedCeltic]

Guerillero On the destruction of the building itself... well yes, in that I agree. Those buildings stood against the New York skyline proclaiming the strength of US capital and it's imperialism. It is a changed world, and I for one hope the change is for the better. I suppose I should shake the din of this grieving stuff off and find the benefits in it all. Truly no one I really cared deeply about has passed on, or gone missing... only people I have met in life, and the attack I suppose shook me up... but I hope it has shaken America, and the west up for good. I remember Bismarck was asked about what he thought of the new flag of Germany and he said that it's a good thing that flags don't win battles (or something to that effect) And my point is that the WTC was simply a symbol... a symbol of American capitalism, a system in dire need of abolition. The grim fact is that the NYSE will open again, and the wheels of capitalism will grind again. And we can only hope that lessons have been learned. I did notice something this morning however... I was on a bus and some people started to talk about the WTC... probably the only thing people are talking about in NY... and I said something to the effect of "Inhumanity can't be fought with Inhumanity" and all of the sudden everyone on the bus agreed with me... everyone (maybe about 17-20 people) except one agreed that the United States has brought this upon herself and should stop sponsoring imperialism. Maybe it was because most on the bus where African Americans. Or maybe just a truly enlightened bunch... whatever it was shocking.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 12:36 am on Sep. 15, 2001)

[DaNatural]

id just like to respond to a comment i believe that was made by espanola, those "assholes" as you call them did not turn on them after america supposedly helped them out they turned on them after what they tried to do to them. america never helps for the sake of humanity there is a reason behind it, by helping afghanistan they were able to of course thwart more communism and also train soldiers who they would use to invade part of the soviet empire. they trained these soldiers with the intent of using them to wage war against communism in kazahstan, uzbekistan and other countries around afghanistan. now when the afghans said they had no interest in this well of course abandoned them and froze them out of certain things thus reducing a country that is torn by war into one that is on the brink of destruction. also u.s.a wanted a fork in the agricultural pie of afghanistan, the afghans said no and of course, they were frozen out of more things. so espanola you are wrong in this regard comrade america didnt help them for no reason they had a reason to secure investments when it failed they turned there back. the afghans are not the only instance of this there are numerous others, so you can see why people in this position are mad and use radical measures to strike back.

[Chief Rebel Angel]

sometimes i wonder if these people should be called muslims... it gives us a bad name... even worse than the one we have now...

espanola82: why does the u.s. stand with israel? i wanna hear ur say on that.. peace//

(Edited by Chief Rebel Angel at 11:13 am on Sep. 15, 2001)

[El Che de Boca Jrs]

People have to be shitting me if they think America is pro freedom. All the US government cares about is making money and rising to the top at the expense of other countries. If their such "freedom lovers" then why did they support Franco, Pinochet, Batista and Duvalier, four of the most inhumane, simple minded and conservative dictators in the history of the world? Exactly, because right-wing governments support the bourgeosite and please Americas economic interests. Apart from ww1 and WW2, almost every issue the US have shoved their nosy asses into were only for personal finnancial interests, in other words "rich man's wars". If it was for the US government, they would own all the money in the world and rule as if they were an aristocrat.

[drunktank]

espanola82,

The bombings in S. Iraq happened
even if the CNN didn't saw them.
And bombings in there happen
whenever the USA has internal problems.
And these are worse terrorism.

You are BRAINWASHED.

1. You don't know for sure that bin laden did it.
But even if he did it, he didn't do it from hate
but because the USA plays the role of the "planet cop".

2. The USA helped Bin Laden for killing Russians.

3. You are so panicked for three planes
and you don't care at all for the 1300 planes
that bombed factories and hospitals in Serbia
which is worse terrorism.

Don't you see that you think the way they want?
Stop watching TV. CNN harms you.

I like that panic
because now the Americans feel
the way the Serbians felt
when the bombed them.

-

And I'm not away from all these.
Your army gave me enough uranium
to remember the attack.

[vox]

espanola82,

You recommend reading. I recommend the same for you. You can start with this:

U.S. State Department Policy Planning Study #23, 1948:

"Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity [U.S. military-economic supremacy].... To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming.... We should cease to talk about vague and...unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better."

— George Kennan
Director of Policy Planning
U.S. State Department
1948


Nice, huh?


What happened in the US is tragic, but it does not make US foreign policy suddenly correct. Tragedy does not somehow make previous tragedy any less tragic. When the US broke the law by bombing the water purification system in Iraq, knowing full well the consequences on civilians, were you this upset?

What happened didn't take place in a vacuum, after all. It's not an isolated occurence that has nothing to do with anything. You may want to ask yourself why so many terrorists were once on the CIA payroll. You might want to ask yourself why we trained terrorists at the School of the Americas. You might want to take your own advice and read a little more.

And if you want to keep up the pro-capitalist, anti-Marxist talk, I'll be here to correct you every step of the way.



drunktank,

Before you start calling everyone here hypocrites, perhaps you should know them. I've been speaking out against the sanctions against Iraq for years. It's not my fault that many US citizens, many of whom I would call hypocrites as well, do not get upset about it.

vox

[jose lopez]

ok ok, so democracy gives us the oportunity to criticise ......but what?..democracy problaby?...hummm thats funny , española you really think that its proved that communism doesnt work?? you think that the socialist that are in politics ( especially in spain) really work , are they really socialists? do you really think that terrorism its not a way of war, Im not saying that its a good war or bad , but its a poor way of fighting, fundamentalism doesnt have F16 or nuclear bombs (yet) so the only way its terrorists attacks, Im not saying thats the way to go, but look ireland the IRA its an army but you cannot compare to the english army so you act with terrorists attacks, that the way it works know......che guevara did not needed to do that cuzz he had the people with him and it was a small country, but what is a guerrilla ....well to alot of people they are terrorists,, its so difficult to explain but lets not jump to conclusions expecially to the same conclusions and the same language that they use on the ·""democratic""" TVs and the politic bla bla bla......just look to what happend in peru with the tupac umaru guerrilleros........all dead and every body happy....