The situation is getting dire

[Luther Blissett]

The JTF, followers of Victor Vancier, ex-JDL convicted terrorist and leading ranter of JTF, also classed as a terrorist organisation in Israel and USA, have discovered this forum.

So if JTF are reading this thread - let me tell you these European far-right EDL are going after the Muslims, then they'll come back to mop up the rest of us Jews.

As early as 2006, original co-founder Paul Ray Cinato was being touted by antisemite Pat Robertson's CBN 700 club, claiming he was a political exile. The reality was he was a drug dealer in Luton who got into trouble with the law and with other drug dealers (lay down with dogs, get up with fleas).
The new leader nominated holocaust denying BNP for his local council!

Using people like Cinato and antisemitic Islamophobic groups like EDL and BNP can only ever backfire. The self-confessed pagan-leader of the semi-fictitious Jewish division has openly admitted to using the EDL against Muslims, and wants to ban Halal and Kashrut, and Beth Din!

I am not a revolutionary leftist. I am not a communist. I am not a leftist, even though the problematic political compass says I am economically left.
I am a non-violent Jewish anarchist and associating with rightwing antisemitic Islamophobic scum like this can only worsen the situation for Jews in Europe.

The Christian hard right (not righteous gentiles at all) follow a perverted teaching of Christianity that desires a warrior-Christ on the throne of Jerusalem and all Jews who refuse to convert to Christianity murdered.

Drop your support of EDL and those like them. Leftwing antisemitism on the revleft site by some members is obvious, but we'd be fools to believe the rightwing has not stopped their antisemitism. The rightwing hide their antisemitism behind their hatred of Islam. If they succeed their aims, they will try to destroy whatever is left of Judaism and Jews, secular or otherwise.

No to extremisms! No to religious intolerance! No to racisms!

[durhamleft]

The JTF, followers of Victor Vancier, ex-JDL convicted terrorist and leading ranter of JTF, also classed as a terrorist organisation in Israel and USA, have discovered this forum.

So if you're reading JTF - these European far-right EDL are going after the Muslims, then they'll come back to mop up the rest of us Jews.

As early as 2006, original co-founder Paul Ray Cinato was being touted by antisemite Pat Robertson's CBN 700 club, claiming he was a political exile. The reality was he was a drug dealer in Luton who got into trouble with the law and with other drug dealers (lay down with dogs, get up with fleas).
The new leader nominated holocaust denying BNP for his local council!

Using people like Cinato and antisemitic Islamophobic groups like EDL and BNP can only ever backfire. The self-confessed pagan-leader of the semi-fictitious Jewish division has openly admitted to using the EDL against Muslims, and wants to ban Halal and Kashrut, and Beth Din!

I am not a revolutionary leftist. I am not a communist. I am not a leftist, even though the problematic political compass says I am economically left.
I am a non-violent Jewish anarchist and associating with rightwing antisemitic Islamophobic scum like this can only worsen the situation for Jews in Europe.

The Christian hard right (not righteous gentiles at all) follow a perverted teaching of Christianity that desires a warrior-Christ on the throne of Jerusalem and all Jews who refuse to convert to Christianity murdered.

Drop your support of EDL and those like them. Leftwing antisemitism on the revleft site by some members is obvious, but we'd be fools to believe the rightwing has not stopped their antisemitism. The rightwing hide their antisemitism behind their hatred of Islam. If they succeed their aims, they will try to destroy whatever is left of Judaism and Jews, secular or otherwise.

No to extremisms! No to religious intolerance! No to racisms!

I would love to see some examples of 'left wing antisemitism' because I suggest you mean anti Israeli posts, and your inability to distinguish between the two highlights you as a pillock.

Secondly, you're pro-Israeli, why? are you fucking mad?

Thirdly, what on earth do you mean 'drop your support of the edl and those like them'? are you suggesting we support them?

fourthly, is english not your first language, because it seems you dont understand what has been posted?

durhamleft

[Luther Blissett]

I would love to see some examples of 'left wing antisemitism' because I suggest you mean anti Israeli posts, and your inability to distinguish between the two highlights you as a pillock.

Secondly, you're pro-Israeli, why? are you fucking mad?

Thirdly, what on earth do you mean 'drop your support of the edl and those like them'? are you suggesting we support them?

fourthly, is english not your first language, because it seems you dont understand what has been posted?

durhamleft

Examples of left wing antisemitism - see the url at: you-dont-look-anti-semiticDOTblogspotDOTcom

Yes, I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian. People, real people matter.

If we accept self-determination for Israelis, we must accept it for Palestinians.

If we accept boycott of Palestinians is immoral and economically and socially damaging, then accept that this applies also to boycotts of Israel.

If we accept that it was damaging to portray Europe's Jews as vermin and aliens in the earlier 20th century, then accept that it is equally damaging to portray Europe's Muslims as vermin and aliens in the early 21st century.

If you want liberation for all people and freedom from oppression, then don't stand with those who would oppress others.

All this is basic libertarianism. Any so-called left or right libertarian who praises or uses oppressive methods to achieve their aims is no libertarian.

Glossary
Israeli=real live breathing living feeling person
Palestinian=real live breathing living feeling person

State of Israel - an existential land without defined borders
State of Palestine - an existential land without defined borders

[durhamleft]

Examples of left wing antisemitism - see the url at: you-dont-look-anti-semiticDOTblogspotDOTcom

Yes, I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian. People, real people matter.

If we accept self-determination for Israelis, we must accept it for Palestinians.

If we accept boycott of Palestinians is immoral and economically and socially damaging, then accept that this applies also to boycotts of Israel.

If we accept that it was damaging to portray Europe's Jews as vermin and aliens in the earlier 20th century, then accept that it is equally damaging to portray Europe's Muslims as vermin and aliens in the early 21st century.

If you want liberation for all people and freedom from oppression, then don't stand with those who would oppress others.

All this is basic libertarianism. Any so-called left or right libertarian who praises or uses oppressive methods to achieve their aims is no libertarian.

Glossary
Israeli=real live breathing living feeling person
Palestinian=real live breathing living feeling person

State of Israel - an existential land without defined borders
State of Palestine - an existential land without defined borders

So one should have supported the Nazis on the basis it would be damaging to their people to stop trading with them and a boycott of Nazi goods would have hurt German workers. Is that what you're saying pal? That it was wrong to boycott South Africa, because it harmed the white farmers who treated their black counter parts like shite? You're telling me that it is wrong to boycott a nation that bombs Palestinian families, cos some farmer in Israel may be made unemployed from farming strawberries on land that doesn't belong to him- land that was stolen from a Palestinian farmer 60 years earlier!? Madness.

[durhamleft]

and regarding left wing anti-Semitism, you said it was on here, I want examples from here, not a link to a website.

[Luther Blissett]

and regarding left wing anti-Semitism, you said it was on here, I want examples from here, not a link to a website.

If it's not obvious to you ... go figure.

Prime example -

you're pro-Israeli, why? are you fucking mad?

[durhamleft]

If it's not obvious to you ... go figure.

Prime example -

THAT IS NOT ANTI-SEMITISM YOU FUCKING PLONK!

I CAN HATE THE AMERICAN STATE, BUT HAVE NOTHING AGAINST AMERICANS.

I CAN HATE THE NORTH KOREAN REGIME, BUT HAVE NOTHING AGAINST NORTH KOREANS.

I CAN HATE THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAN, BUT HAVE NO ISSUE WITH MUSLIMS.

ISRAEL IS A STATE. A STATE THAT KILLS PALESTINIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE RACIST PIGS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ISRAELI's ARE AT FAULT, MANY OPPOSE THAT REGIME, AND IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN JEWS ARE TO BLAME. MY OBJECTION TO ISRAEL, LIKE MANY HAVE JEWS HAVE, IS NOT THAT THEY ARE JEWISH, IT IS THAT THEY KILL PALESTINIANS LIKE THEY ARE SUB HUMAN AND THEY ARE INHABITING STOLEN LAND THAT IS NOT THEIRS TO OCCUPY!!!

[~Spectre]

Boycotts of Israel generally don't involve starving Israelis and turning Israel into a big prison camp. This would seem to be a salient difference to keep in mind.

[Luther Blissett]

You forgot one thing - I clearly state I am pro-Israeli (and pro-Palestinian) but for being pro-Israeli, you called me mad.

The State of Israel kills Israelis too. There are more Israelis in prison on minor drugs charges than there are Palestinians in Israel's prisons.

When Israelis refuse to serve in the territories or the army, they are imprisoned and the state makes propaganda to label them traitors.

So I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian, and your caps-lock rants (and puerile bolding of my tired typos) are not going to alter my view on this.

THAT IS NOT ANTI-SEMITISM YOU FUCKING PLONK!

I CAN HATE THE AMERICAN STATE, BUT HAVE NOTHING AGAINST AMERICANS.

I CAN HATE THE NORTH KOREAN REGIME, BUT HAVE NOTHING AGAINST NORTH KOREANS.

I CAN HATE THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAN, BUT HAVE NO ISSUE WITH MUSLIMS.

ISRAEL IS A STATE. A STATE THAT KILLS PALESTINIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE RACIST PIGS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ISRAELI's ARE AT FAULT, MANY OPPOSE THAT REGIME, AND IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN JEWS ARE TO BLAME. MY OBJECTION TO ISRAEL, LIKE MANY HAVE JEWS HAVE, IS NOT THAT THEY ARE JEWISH, IT IS THAT THEY KILL PALESTINIANS LIKE THEY ARE SUB HUMAN AND THEY ARE INHABITING STOLEN LAND THAT IS NOT THEIRS TO OCCUPY!!!

[durhamleft]

You forgot one thing - I clearly state I am pro-Israeli (and pro-Palestinian) but for being pro-Israeli, you called me mad.

The State of Israel kills Israelis too. There are more Israelis in prison on minor drugs charges than there are Palestinians in Israel's prisons.

When Israelis refuse to serve in the territories or the army, they are imprisoned and the state makes propaganda to label them traitors.

So I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian, and your caps-lock rants are going to alter my view on this.

Good ;-)

Yes, the state of Israel kills Israeli's, however unless I'm mistaken, they don't kill 700 Israeli children in less than a week of bombing.

Perhaps I should be clear, I not calling you mad for being pro-Israeli, as in wanting rights for Israeli citizens, however the term pro-Israeli does not really have that connotation anywhere, what it is perceived as is being pro-Israeli government, and pro the unlawful occupation of Palestine.

[Luther Blissett]

Boycotts of Israel generally don't involve starving Israelis and turning Israel into a big prison camp. This would seem to be a salient difference to keep in mind.

Pushing the world's Jews into Israel where they become segregated and radicalised and too afraid to leave even though Israel is the most dangerous place in the world for Jews - is that not similar to a prison camp?

Encouraging the world's Jews to emigrate to Israel, where they must be indoctrinated to consider all Arabs their enemies or be considered traitors to their people = is thsty not similar to a prison?

Being taught that Europe could at any time become oppressive to non-Christian religions once more (and there is truth in this), is that not equivalent to being imprisoned?

It is happening again - this time, the Muslims AND the Jews of Europe (and America) are having their religious freedoms threatened.

[durhamleft]

Pushing the world's Jews into Israel where they become segregated and radicalised and too afraid to leave even though Israel is the most dangerous place in the world for Jews - is that not similar to a prison camp?

Encouraging the world's Jews to emigrate to Israel, where they must be indoctrinated to consider all Arabs their enemies (after what Europe did for over 1,000 years years) and taught that Europe could at any time become oppressive to non-Christian religions, is that not equivalent to being imprisoned?

And it's happening again - this time, the Muslims AND the Jews of Europe are having their religious freedoms threatened.

You are so ill-informed I cannot believe it.

[Luther Blissett]

So you don't agree that Jews and Muslims in Europe are having their religious freedoms threatened?

[durhamleft]

So you don't agree that Jews and Muslims in Europe are having their religious freedoms threatened?

I think Muslims are currently, the Jewish community has not been anywhere near as threatened over the last decade thankfully.

The thing that I was flabbergasted at was the way you were comparing the standard of living Israeli's have to life in Gaza. You're absolutely bonkers pal.

[Luther Blissett]

I think Muslims are currently, the Jewish community has not been anywhere near as threatened over the last decade thankfully.

That does not answer the question. Are Jewish and Muslim religious freedoms currently under threat in Britain? In Europe? In USA?

The thing that I was flabbergasted at was the way you were comparing the standard of living Israeli's have to life in Gaza. You're absolutely bonkers pal.

You're bonkers, pal. I did not compare the standard of living between the two. You are the one who compares and concludes that a tit-for-tat is the only way forward. The solution is an end to tit-for-tat.

It's clear that Palestinians have suffered economic boycott at the hands of the State of Israel since it was founded.

What I am saying to you, is that the solution lies in the absence of boycotts.

The entire eastern mediterranean economy is flagging - releasing the economic and labour boycotts for Palestinians and allowing them to trade and produce goods and work would restore their economy, and improve the economies of their neighbours.

[durhamleft]

You're bonkers, pal. I did not compare the standard of living between the two.
It's clear that Palestinians have suffered economic boycott at the hands of the State of Israel since it was founded.

What I am saying to you, is that the solution lies in the absence of boycotts.

The entire eastern mediterranean economy is flagging - releasing the boycott on the Palestinians and allowing them to trade and produce goods would restore their economy, and improve other economies.

Yes, but do you think the Israeli government, who have spent 70 years treating the Palestinians like shit are going to do so on their own will, or will they only lift the embargo on Palestine when they are under political and economic pressure; economic pressure from ooo I don't know... a boycott of their goods maybe?!?

[durhamleft]

That does not answer the question. Are Jewish and Muslim religious freedoms currently under threat in Britain? In Europe? In USA?



You're bonkers, pal. I did not compare the standard of living between the two. You are the one who compares and concludes that a tit-for-tat is the only way forward. The solution is an end to tit-for-tat.

It's clear that Palestinians have suffered economic boycott at the hands of the State of Israel since it was founded.

What I am saying to you, is that the solution lies in the absence of boycotts.

The entire eastern mediterranean economy is flagging - releasing the economic and labour boycotts for Palestinians and allowing them to trade and produce goods and work would restore their economy, and improve the economies of their neighbours.

I would say Islamic religious freedom is, but generally speaking Jewish religious freedom is not, no.

[Luther Blissett]

I would say Islamic religious freedom is, but generally speaking Jewish religious freedom is not, no.

Then you may not have noticed - both are under threat. The laws which protect religious freedom, and enable Kosher and Halal slaughter, are one and the same law. Outlaw Halal slaughter, and Kashrut goes too. Same with the religious law - outlaw Sharia arbitration, and the Beth Din go too. Make the following of Sharia illegal, and Halacha becomes illegal too.

It's strange you didn't notice, because most Jews and Muslims did.

[Fidel Follower]

I like turtles.

[Thirsty Crow]

So I am pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian, and your caps-lock rants (and puerile bolding of my tired typos) are not going to alter my view on this.

Wait, you support a state that murders Jews as well as Palestinians? You support a state that terorrizes its ethnic Jewish population and simultaneously murders and plunders Palestinians, very much so in a organized fashion?
And you call yourself an anarchist?

That is a contradiction in terms.

And you should learn that opposition to the genocidal, quasi-fascist state of Israel does NOT equate with anti-semitism or any other kind of malignant attitude towards Jewish people.