You can try fascism. It's against capitalism, constitutions, and rejects everything the left stands for politically. And if you do, my advance goodbyes because this will either be seen as a troll post.
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Where do I go?
Right now it seems I have no political home. I'm relatively young, 26, and I had always been I guess what you call a reactionary conservative up until a few years ago, 2007-2008. At that time I saw conservative economic policies do not work; but I still feel very much the same on non economic issues.
I don't really belong on the right anymore because the right says you must worship capitalism, the constitution, and the right of the powerful to exploit those weaker. They say you must give people the freedom to be exploited and the exploiters the freedom to profit immensely from it.
Then I look at the mainstream left and they say, I have to be:
anti-death penalty- I'm not,
an atheist-I'm not,
pro-choice-I'm not,
anti gun-I'm not,
pro drugs-I'm not exactly on fire for that
pro gay rights-I'm not exactly on fire for that either,
So I don't really fit anywhere. I either have to be a free market capitalist or a degenerate atheist-no offense to any atheists-I understand atheists beliefs, but I don't share them.
Capitalism is BS, the free market is BS, the constitution sucks. I don't seem to fit neatly into any political box, at least none that I know of. If anyone can provide some insight, it would be appreciated. thank you.
You can try fascism. It's against capitalism, constitutions, and rejects everything the left stands for politically. And if you do, my advance goodbyes because this will either be seen as a troll post.
[FONT=Century Gothic]Economic Left/Right: -8.00 | Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.82 [/FONT]
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The only thing that I think you'll be 'on fire' for is your position on abortion. I think nearly everyone on revleft is in favour of gun ownership, and some people's stance on drugs is probably 'to the right' (to use mainstram political parlance) of moderate conservatives. The death penalty is a bit trickier; while I don't think anyone is absolutely in favour of it, there is an element of 'if x was y then I won't really be weeping'. You don't have to be an atheist, and nobody on here seems to belong to the Hitchins/Dawkins/Maher school of atheism.
Why are you not pro-choice?
Until now, the left has only managed capital in various ways; the point, however, is to destroy it.
Not all Leftists are Athiests, and I don't seriously believe that most real leftists are anti-gun. I certainly am not.
I happen to be a Libertarian Communist though. I really can't see anybody advocating for the worker's right to overthrow their government, forcibly if necessary (and it is), while being against the owning of guns.
On the subject of gun rights, you're definitely confusing leftists with liberals for the most part. I'm also not necessarily against the death penalty either, though I wouldn't try to speak for everyone else in that regard as it's more contested. It's certainly less un-equivocally opposed among the left than with liberals though.
I don't really know what you mean by 'pro drugs', but if you are referring to the sane treatment of drug addiction as an illness and legalizing for the sake of regulation and saving money on incarceration that could go to treatment, I and many others are in favor of that.
Women's rights: women as members of the working class are faced with myriad burdens additional to those faced by men, one being main reproductive responsibility in the event of a pregnancy. A women who would be faced with the prospect of losing work, having to raise a child they cannot afford, or the million and one other reasons and circumstances that would lead a woman to choose abortion, should be allowed to do so.
Pro-gay rights: GLBT people make up a significant minority of the working class, about 10%. Alienating them splits the working class and subjects members of this minority to the 'moral' beliefs of the majority, something that I see as flying in the face of the basic ideas of libertarianism (though of course, not all leftists are libertarians).
... To live – does it not mean to have indomitable faith in victory?
Way to be patronizing. I don't like many of his positions (in fact, some of them like his anti-abortion will get him restricted), but to suggest he's a fascist is fucking ridiculous.
Anyway, OP, you sound like a paleo-conservative of some sort. IIRC, they were not all that keen on the free market, though they did harbor a lot of reactionary social views.
However, a few clarifications: though most far-leftists are indeed atheists, not all of them are. In fact, a lot of us don't mind associating with religious leftists. You'll even find a few of them here. Atheism is by no means a requirement for being a socialist. If we are atheists, it is more a result of our materialist ideas rather than out-and-out hostility to religion.
Also, do not confuse us with the liberals on the issue of gun rights. Most of us are actually against gun control, not so much because we're gun nuts (though we do have some here), but because we'd rather the state not hold the sole monopoly on violence and disarm the working class. Also, our belief is that violence stems not from guns, but from a system that conditions people to look toward violence as an attractive choice for survival, or otherwise leaves them no choice but to do so. Taking guns away from ordinary people does not change this fact.
While most leftists are indeed anti-death penalty and pro-legalization of drugs, I don't think I've ever seen anyone here reprimanded for holding such views. They're just unpopular among the left.
Really, it's your views on gay rights and abortion that are most disagreeable, and unfortunately they will result in your restriction to the Opposing Ideologies forum.
YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS
First of all: Hi and welcome to the forum!
From your post I understand that you are now an anti-capitalist and see that this system is based on lies, oppression and expolitation. If you see that the conservative view on economy is wrong why not open your mind and check the other conservative points of view, too?
Complex topic, depends on the case and on your argumentation.
As much as I personally regret it: you don't have to be an atheist, we have some "Christian Communists" here, even an own usergroup for them and there are also "agnostic" people here. If you really have to stick to your supernatural being but are able to reject "God's" most reactionary demands nobody will ban you from here.
Why?
You'll find that most of the people here are absolutley pro-gun, we again have a gun usergroups and arming the working class is one of the aims of communism.
Some people also aren't as long as you can argue your position I guess it's alright.
Again, why? Any reason beyond ignorance and prejudice?
No, he's in favour of gay rights and is pro-legislation of drugs. Read back what he said.
He's saying that he might be "on fire" for his position on abortion and the death penalty, etc. but he won't be "on fire" for his position on drugs or gay rights.
If he isn't I'll have to edit my above post.
Until now, the left has only managed capital in various ways; the point, however, is to destroy it.
I'm pretty sure you're reading it wrong. He explicitly says he's not pro-choice and not anti-death penalty. Where he suggests there's some room for doubt is in pro-gay rights and pro-drugs.
YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS
The phrase "on fire" implies enthusiasm for something, so not being "on fire for something" is to not exactly be enthusiastic about an issue. He's almost certainly stating that's he isn't in favor of such issues, just probably wording it in a less blunt manner to suggest that there is room for debate about it in his mind.
... To live – does it not mean to have indomitable faith in victory?
Hold it right there. Don't trust the mainstream left. The mainstream left (AKA liberals and the like) are what I consider to be, in a way, right-wing. Not much at all will change under rule by liberals; they will give you very little change whilst those further to the right will give you the illusion of change.
I am, I see it as barbaric and should be a thing of the past. Tsk tsk.
Being religious or not does not does not make you inherently left-wing or right-wing.
I'm relatively pro-choice on this matter - and all sorts of studies and research are coming out lately that debunk many pro-life points about fetal emotions, feelings, etc.
Again, this is irrelevant to the left. Some communists will have you believe that revolution necessarily entails guns; others will take all steps to avoid that being the primary tactic.
On a personal level, I oppose drug use by friends and such, but I oppose the harsh drug stances of many governments that punish drug users for a victimless crime and use them as prison slave labour.
We don't have a homosexual "agenda" - as if it were our plan to dominate the world (as many right-wing morons would have you believe), we have an agenda of tolerance, acceptance, solidarity and unity through struggle.
Strange because we have a christian leftists usergroup...
More importantly, religious beliefs and socio-economic beliefs are nearly completely irrelevant to each other. A capitalist can be a conservative christian but a capitalist could also be atheist.
Emphasis added because it's true.
Fascism? Against capitalism? Not bloody likely. Fascism demands private property and monopolies, whilst rejecting the free market.
Fascism starts where the free market ends. There is not one definition of capitalism that explicitly states it ought to have a free market. It would be impossible, anyway.
I'm going to be a tad rebellious here and say that, perhaps, you don't NEED to "fit" into a box. Just follow what you think is right.
That being said, it looks like your still in a "transition" phase. That is, your political views are undergoing a change, and many of your positions, like Anti-Gay rights and Pro Death penalty, may also change with time.
As far as I'm concerned, Social Libertarianism follows on logically from an Economically Socialist viewpoint. If you believe that the majority of society shouldn't be oppressed by a minority of property holders, than it follows that your not too keen on other forms of oppression, such as homophobia, racism, sexism etc.
From what you just said, it sounds like you've rejected Capitalism, that's great. But you haven't put your support behind an "alternative". If you don't think Capitalism is the way forward, than what do you propose instead? I think if you throw your support behind an alternative to the status quo, you'll find that your social views will change to fit your alternative vision for society.
For example, before becoming a Socialist, I was in favour of an all-out prohibition on alcohol and drugs. After becoming a Socialist, I eventually came to the conclusion that people only turn to drugs because of the depressing state of life under Capitalism. I also came to the conclusion that many people have decided to rely on drugs in order to get through life, and I have no right to take that away from them just because "I" disaprove.
So don't worry about "Labels". Labels are dumb anyway. Just try to think about what you think we should have instead of Capitalism. Social views tend to follow your political-economic views, so I wouldn't stress about that.
"I'd rather be ruled by a mob than a tyrant" - Kwisatz Haderach
In the United States and western Europe, mainly, not in other places with different histories. I think a key point is that is that most of the issues the OP mentioned are ones that are secondary to socialism itself, but associated with it due to the historical alliances and commitments of leftist movements. A lot of these, like drug legalization and gay rights are very, very recent and somewhat geographically bound.
My response to the original post: The best thing for you is not to be in hurry to declare yourself a member of a cause. The first priority should be to read a lot of library books about social problems and crises, the history of the labor movement and other popular movements, theories and proposals, etc. Don't let anyone recruit you quickly into their organization. Discover for yourself. You will know when it's time to dedicate yourself.
***
"When you know that you know what you know, and when you know that you don't know what you don't know, that is knowledge." - Confucius
Feudalism............however finding a group like that in the US may be difficult.
To be fair though, some of those may be an extension of the fact that you're not athiest. Either way, we wouldn't get along, but I suggest not necessarily trying to "fit" anywhere, but rather, strive to learn.
And I kind of do take offense to being called "degenerate athiest."
[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]"The strategic adversary is fascism ... the fascism in us all, in our heads and in our everyday behavior, the fascism that causes us to love power, to desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us."
[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]-Foucault[/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]"[/FONT]God damnit.[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode] Just be wonderful. What's wrong with you people?!'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]"[/FONT]-[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]Bilan[/FONT]
He needs to come back ASAP to clarify his position on gay rights...
Until now, the left has only managed capital in various ways; the point, however, is to destroy it.
Who said that again?And I kind of do take offense to being called "degenerate athiest."
... To live – does it not mean to have indomitable faith in victory?
Although Fuedalism or Nazism could be the extremes of what you get when you extrapolate your views, yet I don't believe that is the case.
In the Netherlands, we have an ultra-conservative social-democratic party. (The Christianunion). Depending wether you're actually against capitalism or just against laissez-fair, this might be something for you.
However it's best indeed to just stick doing your own thing, and letting time tell where you end up. You're welcome for a chat around here anyhow.
Just to get a total picture, some other perennial issues...
Your stance on
-Immigration
-International politics
-environment
-women's rights
Whenever 'realism' is posed as antithesis to idealism, disasters are bound to happen.
Gobierno Negrín: ¿dónde está Nin? - POUM (Partit Obrer d'Unificació Marxista)
[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]"The strategic adversary is fascism ... the fascism in us all, in our heads and in our everyday behavior, the fascism that causes us to love power, to desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us."
[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]-Foucault[/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]"[/FONT]God damnit.[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode] Just be wonderful. What's wrong with you people?!'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]"[/FONT]-[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]Bilan[/FONT]
