Women's Struggle - All issues regarding sexism and the fight against it.

[Medicant]

Straight to the point then: "Women's Struggle - All issues regarding sexism and the fight against it."

Shouldn't that be, "Gender Struggle - All issues regarding sexism and the fight against it."?

I understand where you are coming from, e.g.: "Women are oppressed by todays corporate society and get the short end of the stick"; but as we are all intelligent people here (at least I'd like to think so), why not be gender neutral on the matter of subjects like sexism?

It's probably just a typo some naive woman made while setting up the subforums but I just thought I'd like to bring it to your attention as sexism affects more that just the females of the species.

This could act as a good "collection post" of sexist mistakes made in the name of preventing sexism, any and all responses are welcome.

[Meridian]

Sexist mistakes made in the prevention of sexism?

Well, I would say feminism that stands for the cause of privileged females over the cause of workers.

Feminists who considers sexuality (especially that of males and heterosexuals) inherently violent or negative (http://i.imgur.com/sa5Q7.jpg) and seeks to subjugate others with their views.

Feminists who hate males by being males, and use the term "men" derogatory as if this fact about groups of people is necessarily a relevant common denominator compared to, for example; class, social ability, location, etc. The same applies accordingly, in an opposite way, for the term "women". Related; feminists who try to narrow the definition of sexism down to the oppression of males over females.

Your suggested forum name will indeed open up room for a lot more discussion:
"Gender Struggle - All issues regarding sexism and the fight against it."

The way it is now, it is implied that only women are facing sexist discrimination. This gives trans people, queers, and hetero males the short end of the stick, since it says that women's struggle = all issues regarding sexism. So, whether the name of the forum is changed or the description of it is changed should depend on the purpose of the forum (be it women's struggle or anti-sexism).

[9]

The both of you honestly need to get a fucking grip.

[gorillafuck]

It's probably just a typo some naive woman made while setting up the subforums but I just thought I'd like to bring it to your attention as sexism affects more that just the females of the species.

What makes you assume this subforum was set up by a woman? You should add your post to the collection.

[Invincible Summer]

It's probably just a typo some naive woman made while setting up the subforums but I just thought I'd like to bring it to your attention as sexism affects more that just the females of the species.

This could act as a good "collection post" of sexist mistakes made in the name of preventing sexism, any and all responses are welcome.

How ironic... you bastard.

[Meridian]

The both of you honestly need to get a fucking grip.

Stop trolling.

[9]

I'm not trolling; I'm giving you a piece of advice.

[9]

I did get a good lol out of this, though:

Originally Posted by OP
why not be gender neutral on the matter of subjects like sexism?

lol

[Foldered]

S
It's probably just a typo some naive woman made while setting up the subforums

Cute.

If you need someone to hold your hand in understanding why this forum is called "Women's Struggle," then you really need to go out and do some reading.

And yes, I lol'd at the same quote 9 did; if everyone was gender neutral with regard to sexism, it would not exist.

And for the record, every issue surrounding sexism does not belong in the Women's Struggle subforum (even though it does say so in the description, if you look at discrimination there are plenty of threads on sexism not in the Women's Struggle forum), so arguing that:

The way it is now, it is implied that only women are facing sexist discrimination. This gives trans people, queers, and hetero males the short end of the stick, since it says that women's struggle = all issues regarding sexism. So, whether the name of the forum is changed or the description of it is changed should depend on the purpose of the forum (be it women's struggle or anti-sexism).

Makes no fucking sense.

That's like saying the subforums in "Ongoing Struggles" are prejudice because they assume that only Greece, Nepal, and Palestine are struggling and that would be a pretty fucking stupid thing to say, wouldn't it?

Close this thread. If everyone needs an intellectually stimulating discussion about how it isn't sexist to have a Women's Struggle subforum, then something is seriously wrong here...

[counterblast]

It's probably just a typo some naive woman made while setting up the subforums but I just thought I'd like to bring it to your attention as sexism affects more that just the females of the species.

This has got to be a joke.

[counterblast]

Also, I would be okay with changing the name of this forum to "Women and Trans Struggle".

Cis men already dominate every other forum on RevLeft.

[Meridian]

The way it is now, it is implied that only women are facing sexist discrimination. This gives trans people, queers, and hetero males the short end of the stick, since it says that women's struggle = all issues regarding sexism. So, whether the name of the forum is changed or the description of it is changed should depend on the purpose of the forum (be it women's struggle or anti-sexism).

Makes no fucking sense.

That's like saying the subforums in "Ongoing Struggles" are prejudice because they assume that only Greece, Nepal, and Palestine are struggling and that would be a pretty fucking stupid thing to say, wouldn't it?

Close this thread. If everyone needs an intellectually stimulating discussion about how it isn't sexist to have a Women's Struggle subforum, then something is seriously wrong here...

Look, all I am saying is that it is sort of sexist to declare that all anti-sexism amounts to women's struggle.

This forum is currently called "Women's Struggle" and the description of it is "All issues regarding sexism and the fight against it."

The "Ongoing Struggles" forum is not the same, because Palestine, Greece and Nepal are sub-forums of it. If the entire forum was called "Palestinian Struggle" and the description was "Forum dedicated to discussing all ongoing struggles" it would be more similar.

I don't care if this forum should be called Women's Struggle or Gender Struggle (or whatever). I just think it is weird the way it currently is, though admittedly not really of a big concern to me.

[gorillafuck]

Also, I would be okay with changing the name of this forum to "Women and Trans Struggle".

Cis men already dominate every other forum on RevLeft.

Forms of discrimination don't exist entirely separate from eachother so I don't see what the point is of having subforums for different types.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Sexist mistakes made in the prevention of sexism?

Fuck you.

Well, I would say feminism that stands for the cause of privileged females over the cause of workers.

No I would not be considered to be very privileged. I'm very much a feminist.

Feminists who considers sexuality (especially that of males and heterosexuals) inherently violent or negative (http://i.imgur.com/sa5Q7.jpg) and seeks to subjugate others with their views.

Yeah? Well most feminists don't consider sexuality violent or negative. Part of my living is made by my putting out and most of the violence I've experienced wasn't involving anyone who I've had sex with. (with the exception of when I was raped)

Feminists who hate males by being males, and use the term "men" derogatory as if this fact about groups of people is necessarily a relevant common denominator compared to, for example; class, social ability, location, etc. The same applies accordingly, in an opposite way, for the term "women". Related; feminists who try to narrow the definition of sexism down to the oppression of males over females.

If I had a dimebag for each of the sexist comments I've heard I'd be high as a kite for the rest of my life.

Your suggested forum name will indeed open up room for a lot more discussion:
"Gender Struggle - All issues regarding sexism and the fight against it."

I wouldn't object to that name. It sounds cute enough for me.

The way it is now, it is implied that only women are facing sexist discrimination. This gives trans people, queers, and hetero males the short end of the stick, since it says that women's struggle = all issues regarding sexism. So, whether the name of the forum is changed or the description of it is changed should depend on the purpose of the forum (be it women's struggle or anti-sexism).

Well I'm trans (MtF) and I identify as a woman. So I feel I fit right into this forum. I can speak for myself.

[counterblast]

Forms of discrimination don't exist entirely separate from eachother so I don't see what the point is of having subforums for different types.

Intersectionality exists, sure, but how I am oppressed racially is very different from how I am oppressed sexually.

For example, if someone sees me as an Arab woman, I am seen as sexually repressed, shy, and passive, especially if I'm wearing a hijab.

But if someone sees me as a woman Arab, I am seen as a wild-eyed, dogmatic terrorist and worshipper of Allah.

In this way, depending on how I pass, I am read different ways. I am trivialized because of my womanhood, and I am feared because of my race.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Intersectionality exists, sure, but how I am oppressed racially is very different from how I am oppressed sexually.

For example, if someone sees me as an Arab woman, I am seen as sexually repressed, shy, and passive, especially if I'm wearing a hijab.

But if someone sees me as a woman Arab, I am seen as a wild-eyed, dogmatic terrorist and worshipper of Allah.

In this way, depending on how I pass, I am read different ways. I am trivialized because of my womanhood, and I am feared because of my race.

I've dated people who took me with when they went to visit family and then I see how anti-mexican sentiments are all too common.

[gorillafuck]

Intersectionality exists, sure, but how I am oppressed racially is very different from how I am oppressed sexually.

For example, if someone sees me as an Arab woman, I am seen as sexually repressed, shy, and passive, especially if I'm wearing a hijab.

But if someone sees me as a woman Arab, I am seen as a wild-eyed, dogmatic terrorist and worshipper of Allah.

In this way, depending on how I pass, I am read different ways. I am trivialized because of my womanhood, and I am feared because of my race.

You're right, that's definitely true.

But I don't understand how that means there should be a separate forum for sexism. Obviously we don't consider racial oppression more or less deplorable than sexual oppression.

I'm nitpicking here though, it doesn't make much of a difference if threads on sexism are in their own forum or if they are on the main discrimination one.

[Meridian]

Fuck you.

What?! Why the flaming?

No I would not be considered to be very privileged. I'm very much a feminist.

You may have misunderstood me, I did not say that all feminism stands for the cause of privileged women. I meant that (- the type of -) feminism that stands for the cause of privileged women over workers should be dismissed. So whether or not you yourself are privileged or a feminist, I don't see the relevance of.

Yeah? Well most feminists don't consider sexuality violent or negative. Part of my living is made by my putting out and most of the violence I've experienced wasn't involving anyone who I've had sex with. (with the exception of when I was raped)

I know that most feminists don't consider sexuality violent or negative. Again, I was speaking of a certain type of feminism that I think is idiotic (and kind of sexist). Really sorry to hear about the violence.

If I had a dimebag for each of the sexist comments I've heard I'd be high as a kite for the rest of my life.

Okay..?

I wouldn't object to that name. It sounds cute enough for me.

Glad to hear that.

Well I'm trans (MtF) and I identify as a woman. So I feel I fit right into this forum. I can speak for myself.

Yeah, so I don't know if the members here want to have a forum specifically for Women's Struggles or if they want to have a more open one called "Gender Struggles" which maybe doesn't alienate those who don't consider themselves females (but still may suffer sexism). So, it is really only a question of what the admins/users think the forum needs. Either way, I think it's a bit confusing that the name now is "Women's Struggle" and the description says "All issues regarding sexism...".

[gorillafuck]

Meridian: I think you don't fully understand the power structures involved in patriarchy.

I don't think anybody here would deny that there's sometimes prejudice against men in society. The thing is, you need to understand that we live in a male dominant society. While there is sometimes prejudice against men in certain areas, the way that patriarchy works is that it puts men in a position of power over women. You can see this in the way the traditional family structure is with the father as the head of the family, the direction that domestic abuse goes (almost always male abusing female and rarely the other way around), wage differentials for the same work (I forget what the exact number is but I think it's women get around 75 cents for every dollar a man makes), the way that women in positions of power are not taken seriously and treated with disdain, etc. I could go on with examples but the point is pretty clear. Having someone assume you are dumber than you are because you are a man isn't altering the power structures when it comes to men and women in society.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

What?! Why the flaming?

Because I can? I have a tendency to get pissy.

You may have misunderstood me, I did not say that all feminism stands for the cause of privileged women. I meant that (- the type of -) feminism that stands for the cause of privileged women over workers should be dismissed. So whether or not you yourself are privileged or a feminist, I don't see the relevance of.

You should have been more specific.

I know that most feminists don't consider sexuality violent or negative. Again, I was speaking of a certain type of feminism that I think is idiotic (and kind of sexist). Really sorry to hear about the violence.

Like I said... More specific.

Okay..?

okay...

Glad to hear that.

Hold your horses, hon, I didn't say that I dislike the one we have... I could go either way on that.

Yeah, so I don't know if the members here want to have a forum specifically for Women's Struggles or if they want to have a more open one called "Gender Struggles" which maybe doesn't alienate those who don't consider themselves females (but still may suffer sexism). So, it is really only a question of what the admins/users think the forum needs. Either way, I think it's a bit confusing that the name now is "Women's Struggle" and the description says "All issues regarding sexism...".

Either way sounds fine to me.