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I'm looking to set-up a "militant" anti-fascist group in the UK to counter EDL demos
This groups would not be violent, but by 'militant' I mean it would go wherever they go, would consist of several hundred members and would actively try to disrupt their marches (ie. get into streets where they intend to march and refuse to march).
I very much like the 'black bloc' idea- of disguising identity, but disapprove of their tactics of smashing stuff up though.
It just seems to me like we need people who will track these bastards and it would be good to have a situation where theyre scared to leave their police cordens rather than currently where if they break out they feel able to run rampage and hurt who they want.
This group would not promote violence at all, but it strikes me that we've let them get away with too much so far and it would be good to see some left resistance to fascist marches.
So, the questions are how on earth would I go about setting this up, whether or not you think it's a good idea, and finally how many people we can mobilise for Bradford, as less then 200 and we won't be able to break up the march.
Economic Left/Right: -5.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.51
http://yorks-afed.org/
Having seen that link this appears exactly the type of showing we need.
Economic Left/Right: -5.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.51
Funnily enough this has been going through my head over the last few days. We could benefit from an "Anti-Fascist Defence League" to counter attack violent demos and the like.
Obviously this group would not be an aggressive group, merely defensive in the sense that it defends people from fascist violence etc.
As for setting it up, I guess you get a small team of people that are interested and spread the world amongst anti-fascists all over the country, as well as requesting support from parties/trade unions.
I'm willing to discuss this further if you want to put something together.
EDIT: I was thinking for a nationwide organization, but as for Bradford, advertise on here and places like facebook, for an anti-EDL counter demo and you should attract a lot of people. How/if you organize these people is a separate matter.
I'm the Laird of the land, I'm hot like Pol Pot.'A true white liberal.' - Sword and Shield (on me)
'i am a communism fer a long years.' - twenty percent tip
FKA Mahmoud Ahmerdinnerjacket
SWAG1
I think I would like to, give me a few days to ponder how we may go about this and I'll get back to you with some ideas. In Newcastle for example the revolutionary left brought out about 150 members of which 30 or 40 wanted to disrupt the EDL march, and it simply was not good enough.
We would need a base of a few thousand and an ability to mobilise hundreds of really committed anti-fascists within a few days- no easy challenge!
Economic Left/Right: -5.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.51
Its very difficult. I reckon the best thing that can be done as it stands is to announce national opposition demos at EDL demos, to try and attract people from all over the UK. This could be a step towards building a united, militant anti-fascist league.
Lets talk about it anyway, see if we can at least try and organize a national counter demo of sorts.
I'm the Laird of the land, I'm hot like Pol Pot.'A true white liberal.' - Sword and Shield (on me)
'i am a communism fer a long years.' - twenty percent tip
FKA Mahmoud Ahmerdinnerjacket
SWAG
The EDL are on to this already.
They're planning to disrupt the meeting.
The thread is called
"Communist and Anarchists plan to set up a militant faction to directly challenge the EDL".
After taking part in many counter-demonstrations against the EDL, violence is always inevitable. It's important to fight fire with fire, as those EDL thugs love a bit of a scrap, especially with us lefties. I'd be interested in joining a militant group that directly opposes the EDL, but let us not forget that ANTIFA is growing through out the UK, and will be attending more counter demonstrations against the EDL, so it would be important to take that into consideration when searching for people to join.
Obviously they watch placed like these. Just don't give out the particulars of where such meetings are held, etc, on a public forum. They may be aware of your plans, and are no doubt watching this thread, but unless you post specific information out in the open they have nothing to work with. PM people, and watch who you PM info to. Examine the profile of anyone expressing interest in joining and trying to obtain information, look at their post count, what they've said in the past, etc. This site is pretty good at weeding out fasc sympathizers quickly, so if you see someone who has posted here a good bit there's a good chance they're ok. Be vigilant though.
... To live – does it not mean to have indomitable faith in victory?
The whole point of the current anti-fascist movement, both anarchist hardlads and UAF liberals is that neither are capable of organising LOCAL WORKING CLASS PEOPLE ON A GRASSROOTS AND CONSISTENT LEVEL to counter the EDL. The entire conclusion of Marxism, of any sort of class analysis, has to be that we (the working class) greatly outnumber the EDL if we can make a real strong showing - but this has to be built around the organised working class - the unions - convincing unions to not only fund UAF gatherings but commit their members (many of who are the most vocal members of tha anti-fa movement) to come along in numbers (I certainly fancy the chances of dockers, factory workers, posties, etc against the EDL rather than middle class UAF/anarchist students). We have to make an argument across class lines that the EDL are incorrect - the problems which certainly do exist in terms of the housing crisis, unemployment, etc are not the fault of immigrants but rather a product of capitalism. The anti-Islam stuff should be countered with a materialist perspective - that we also disagree with religious extremists but that Islam is not an exception in terms of this and that the threat of militant Islam sharia law a takeover etc is non-existent and peddled by the calculating fascists (many of them wealthy businessmen) at the top of the EDL and bought up by their disenfranchised young working-class following.
All you're proposing is something which will terrify even more local working-class people in Dudley, in Bolton, in Bradford, in London etc - not to mention the prime argument used by liberals and the state against the anti-fa left - that the left is nothing more than a mirror image of the EDL, the two just want a good scrap. I completely reject this as should any sane marxist - we want to use the marxist tactics of democratic workplace and community organising - not football hooligans-on tour style rubbish. I appreciate your militancy but as the link above about EDL keeping track of this stuff you can obviously see how you're on the wrong track. They can always beat us (the activist left) up but they can't beat up an entire organised local working-class community, many of whom they would recognise as from a similar situation as themselves. We have to focus on a serious challenge to the EDL and the far-right and this means a serious task, not one planned on internet forums and in secretive blanquist whispers, but rather in the workplace, in the universities, openly on the street and anywhere you encounter racist and anti-worker arguments etc.
Last edited by The Grey Blur; 12th July 2010 at 18:43.
“It is not true that people stop pursuing dreams because they grow old, they grow old because they stop pursuing dreams.” - Gabriel Garcia Marquez
"What forces can bring the national question to a successful conclusion? Only the working class can do so." - Ta Power
Count me out.
Militancy & violence is what the EDL threaten against communities, against workers movements, against the leftwing.
If I took that role, people not involved with EDL would not listen to what I had to say and they would not join in the events/meetings planned.
People involved with EDL would not listen either, as they would feel threatened on two fronts - through the media-hype/counter-jeee-hadi hype against wadical Islamismism, and through their own leaders' hype against 'the lefty twaitors'.
Non-EDL might feel endangered to stand with us against the EDL.
I am interested in non-violent & non-confrontational strategies though.
Last edited by Luther Blissett; 7th July 2010 at 09:54.
a group of people who are fine with commiting violent acts would only need about ten people to stop a march......... and i'm not talking about black bloc violence. i'm talking about being guerillas for peace.
...and how does it follow logically that those people should just accept EDL violence instead of resisting?
'i would punch u in the jawside so hard it would lean more left than the ICC' - bailey_187 to AK
"Now the states in the business of casually arresting successful protest groups at the end of fully automatics we really are going to have to be very clever about how we go about things if the far left movement grows. ("First they came for the half witted tossers")"
- Comrade Joe on the arrest of EDL members
Good luck.. if people had said that in the 1980's racial violence would have been huge.
If you do want a 'non violent' strategy, join the UAF, you'll never be close to an EDL member.
And again, it's almost impossible to counter a group like the EDL without confrontation, confrontation doesn't have to be violent it just means that you have to position yourself to stop them.
So everything we do needs to be revolutionary? I don't remember the last time I took a revolutionary dump. Ever hear of recreation? - A great man.
Comrade, if I were living in the UK, I would join you. Unfortunately, I'm on the western front of the anti-fascist war.
"I am the revolutionary! I am the proletariat! I am the people!"
"You can kill a revolutionary, but you can never kill the revolution!"
"Better to die standing, than to live on your knees."
Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
Working Men of All Countries, Unite!
I know right? The U.S. is a bore
Precisely. Here, the right-wing radical groups and the Christian extremists are more prominent than our so-called "revolutionary parties" and generally far-left organizations. We have parties that advocate for radical change and massive rallies, yet none take place. I will admit, we have some protests and civil demonstrations, but nothing major or noteworthy.
"I am the revolutionary! I am the proletariat! I am the people!"
"You can kill a revolutionary, but you can never kill the revolution!"
"Better to die standing, than to live on your knees."
Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
Working Men of All Countries, Unite!
one is either christian or nonchristian, there is no such thing as a "christian extremist". note that different christians believe different things, but being right wing does not make them any more "extreme" of a christian than for example me.
i'm not a "middle of the road" christian, i'm simply a christian who uses their brain every once in a while.
Of course there is such thing as a christian extremist. They are those who take all of the bible literally.
On topic, how about trying to organize class struggle and providing a way forward rather than just trying to combat the EDL? I think that those who most outspokenly oppose groups like the EDL often fail to actually talk about a way forward and that's a real problem.
So, by implication, you suggest that there are no Muslim extremists either? That there are only Muslims and non-Muslims?
"I am the revolutionary! I am the proletariat! I am the people!"
"You can kill a revolutionary, but you can never kill the revolution!"
"Better to die standing, than to live on your knees."
Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
Working Men of All Countries, Unite!
