Sexual orientation - the progressive view

[danyboy27]

Can't some people be "hardwired" gay and some choose it as a lifestyle? Why does it have to be so complicated?

either you are born gay, or you arnt....what so somplicated?

[Klaatu]

My neighbor's sexual orientation is of no interest to me whatsoever.

Back in college I wrote a paper, essentially stating that homosexuality should actually be encouraged, because the union of two homosexuals do not produce offspring. Considering the virtual explosion of world population, this viewpoint actually makes sense, in that the idea that reduction of population growth is a highly desirable outcome for the way of thinking of just about anyone you might ask...

BTW, I got an "A" on my thesis.

[Soseloshvili]

Can't some people be "hardwired" gay and some choose it as a lifestyle? Why does it have to be so complicated?

Sexuality is complicated. the problem is that you're describing two different things. Gay lifestyle and sexuality are two separate things, there are many heterosexuals who choose to live a gay lifestyle without being gay themselves. In the same breath there are those who choose to live a transgender lifestyle without being transgender. These are people who believe it's "fun" to party with a bunch of gay boys or dress up as a girl, without feeling sexually attracted to other men or feeling that they were born the wrong gender.

On the issue of hardwiring, I don't know. I know that I never felt sexually attracted to women, I can't speak authoritively as to why. Maybe its my upbringing, I spent most of my life being raised by my mother. Then again maybe its genes, of my 3 blood related cousins two turned out to be gay, making a total of 50% of my generation of my family gay (counting my one brother, who is straight), which is pretty high. It could be partly both. All I can tell you is that there might be "converts" to homosexuality, though it could be argued that they have simply been in the closet, and that there are certainly, for whatever reason, "hardwired" gays.

Sorry if I just made that more confusing.

[danyboy27]

My neighbor's sexual orientation is of no interest to me whatsoever.

Back in college I wrote a paper, essentially stating that homosexuality should actually be encouraged, because the union of two homosexuals do not produce offspring. Considering the virtual explosion of world population, this viewpoint actually makes sense, in that the idea that reduction of population growth is a highly desirable outcome for the way of thinking of just about anyone you might ask...

BTW, I got an "A" on my thesis.

what the hell is that?

[Klaatu]

what the hell is that?

That's essentially what my writing professor said. She said "Quite an unusual idea..."

Do you dislike my idea? Is this offensive in some way? It is not intended to be. Is my idea outlandish? I think it is pragmatic, actually, from a purely scientific point of view.

[danyboy27]

That's essentially what my writing professor said. She said "Quite an unusual idea..."

Do you dislike my idea? Is this offensive in some way? It is not intended to be. Is my idea outlandish? I think it is pragmatic, actually, from a purely scientific point of view.

you dont control other people sexual feeling and attraction, so your idea is dead in the water from the start.

the problem itself of overpopulation is also a myth, there are a lot of room avaliable on this planet for WAY MORE people, and enough fertile soil and water, that is if it would be distributed and managed correctly.

[Mahatma Gandhi]

Thanks for all your replies.

What if a straight man undergoes sex operation and becomes a woman but is attracted only to women? Would it make him/her straight or gay?

[Bud Struggle]

Thanks for all your replies.

What if a straight man undergoes sex operation and becomes a woman but is attracted only to women? Would it make him/her straight or gay?

You should ask him/her.

[Mahatma Gandhi]

Also, assuming sexuality is a matter of choice, would it be fair to assume that women are more open to it than men? Is a woman more likely to 'experiment' with it? I believe it is so, considering lesbian themes appeal even to straight women, whereas (male) gay theme doesn't do much for men.

[Klaatu]

you dont control other people sexual feeling and attraction, so your idea is dead in the water from the start.

I'm not sure I understand why I would want to "control" someone else's sexual behavior. That's not what I meant. I was pointing out that there is a good reason not to demonize homosexuality. That is all.

the problem itself of overpopulation is also a myth, there are a lot of room avaliable on this planet for WAY MORE people, and enough fertile soil and water, that is if it would be distributed and managed correctly.

I will have to disagree on that point. World population is growing exponentially, along with all of the pollution (e.g. CO2) that humans produce. It's almost out of control now. Consider the OOPS oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, for example. One blip, yes. But cumulatively, pollution is engulfing the planet, and there is no inexpensive way to get it under control.

[danyboy27]

I'm not sure I understand why I would want to "control" someone else's sexual behavior. That's not what I meant. I was pointing out that there is a good reason not to demonize homosexuality. That is all.

but, there is no reason to demonize anything, beccause demonizing something narrow down our capability to understand it.

i assumed that beccause you said homosexuality should be encouraged, you wanted to forcefed homosexuality into the mind if young children, hoping they would turn gay, i just pointed out it wouldnt work.

I will have to disagree on that point. World population is growing exponentially, along with all of the pollution (e.g. CO2) that humans produce. It's almost out of control now. Consider the OOPS oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, for example. One blip, yes. But cumulatively, pollution is engulfing the planet, and there is no inexpensive way to get it under control.

yea well, its a matter of energy, all you need is more clean energy, not reduce the natality rate.

[Klaatu]

but, there is no reason to demonize anything, beccause demonizing something narrow down our capability to understand it.

Absolutely

i assumed that beccause you said homosexuality should be encouraged, you wanted to forcefed homosexuality into the mind if young children, hoping they would turn gay, i just pointed out it wouldnt work.

No, not this at all.

I meant "encourage" in the sense that this might disarm some of the anti-gay bigots out there on the lunatic fringe.

The words advertise and promote would have been a better choice, to make my point.

[#FF0000]

Thanks for all your replies.

What if a straight man undergoes sex operation and becomes a woman but is attracted only to women? Would it make him/her straight or gay?

Gay.

[Dr Mindbender]

Personally i'm a subscriber to the theory that theres no such thing as 'gay' or 'straight'. More that the sexual spectrum is greyscale and we are all bisexual to a greater or lesser degree.

To me sexual preference is a biological function akin to other biological preferences. Some of us like sex with the same gender, some dont. Some people like the taste of asparagus, others dont. Its that sort of thing.

The greatest tragedy is that due to the taboo placed on sex not afforded to other biological persuasions we feel forced to segregate ourselves on the basis of sexual preferences, and i do put the emphasis on the word 'preferences'.

[9]

Also, assuming sexuality is a matter of choice, would it be fair to assume that women are more open to it than men? Is a woman more likely to 'experiment' with it? I believe it is so, considering lesbian themes appeal even to straight women, whereas (male) gay theme doesn't do much for men.

It has to do with social attitudes. If "manhood" is upheld as a virtue in a given society, doing things to undermine it carry much more negative consequences and tend to be shunned. I know a lot of frat boy types who I swear would probably sooner kill themselves than admit that once when they were twelve they had fleeting sexual thoughts about another male.

[CountryKid]

I haven't seen proof saying Gays are born that way.


I don't remember ever being attracted to ladies though. I think the Vajinn is a horror.

[danyboy27]

Personally i'm a subscriber to the theory that theres no such thing as 'gay' or 'straight'. More that the sexual spectrum is greyscale and we are all bisexual to a greater or lesser degree.

To me sexual preference is a biological function akin to other biological preferences. Some of us like sex with the same gender, some dont. Some people like the taste of asparagus, others dont. Its that sort of thing.

The greatest tragedy is that due to the taboo placed on sex not afforded to other biological persuasions we feel forced to segregate ourselves on the basis of sexual preferences, and i do put the emphasis on the word 'preferences'.

too bad science dosnt agree with you.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I think sexuality is genetically and socially influenced, with the primary factor being genetics. Additionally, I'm sympathetic to the idea that someone can change their sexuality over time.

For instance, here is something that confuses me. Let's picture a thirty year old man who suddenly starts having homosexual inclinations. They never had them before that as far as they are aware. Slowly over time, this becomes more prominent. They need to reflect on social norms and get over the "it's bad" indoctrination. Eventually, they consider themselves primarily attracted to men, perhaps no longer being attracted to women by comparison.

I believe the above has happened. Yet the gay community generally accuses such people as having been "in denial" or "suppressing" their sexuality. I think it's a bit hypocritical within the gay rights movement that some people are so fundamentally set on 100% supporting the genetic perspective not only being true, but being "always true of every person."

I'm sure it's difficult being homosexual. It was an insult in high school, and I received name calling from time to time. If I had actually been homosexual, it probably would have felt even worse. Living with prejudice, it's probably easier to believe there is nothing but genetics to their sexuality. They want to feel like they have no control and highlight themselves as a victim. They are, but the problem is it's a naturalistic fallacy. Psychopathy could be genetic, but it's not acceptable to murder people because of it. It may be harder, but the homosexual movement needs to defend sexuality on the basis that even if people do choose it, it's their business.

I like to suggest there are social influences just to challenge this authoritarian perspective within the gay rights movement. In reality, I think social influences probably play a significantly small role for "most" people. And I don't think sexuality can be altered psychologically in a manner that's healthy. For example, anyone who did psychotherapy I would suspect will suffer incredibly trauma at some point due to a belief/nature conflict. Surgery could do it, perhaps. Idea for movie or something. Surgeons start making famous anti-homosexual crusaders gay. Might be neat to see.

[RGacky3]

Back in college I wrote a paper, essentially stating that homosexuality should actually be encouraged, because the union of two homosexuals do not produce offspring. Considering the virtual explosion of world population, this viewpoint actually makes sense, in that the idea that reduction of population growth is a highly desirable outcome for the way of thinking of just about anyone you might ask...

If that were true, then the nutty preachers that say they can turn gays straight are right, you can encourage and switch sexuality (which is something scientifically unsound), so your being silly, the fact is sexuality is a scientific matter and a matter of nature, and one that should be viewed as such.

[Klaatu]

If that were true, then the nutty preachers that say they can turn gays straight are right, you can encourage and switch sexuality (which is something scientifically unsound), so your being silly, the fact is sexuality is a scientific matter and a matter of nature, and one that should be viewed as such.

You are taking this the wrong way. Like I said before, no one is trying to turn people into gays. My point is that homosexuality should not be demonized, for it has very valuable advantages, such as no babies are born to a gay couple, thus world population growth eases somewhat (humanely I might add)