Thoughts?

[Ele'ill]

http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/10758

I put this here because it shows some division in the common movement that you don't really get to know until you've been involved for a while (reading, marching, organizing etc.)

I also didn't want to put it in the main OI section because most of the OIers there don't oppose the g20.

[La Comédie Noire]

The Black Bloc isn't that effective in my experience(very limited experience mind you). We show up, do battle, normal folks on the street have no idea what's going on, then "everyone goes home".

The Black Bloc is a manufactured riot which is just as hollow as the manufactured town hall meetings the ruling class has recently decided to humor us with.

But in places like Greece and France it's another story. Large numbers of people take part in riots, both masked and unmasked, with clear demands and focused anger. what's going on in Greece right now can't be ignored, it feels like the real deal.

We can say though, the black bloc has forced the politicians to barricade themselves in four star hotel bunkers surrounded by a wall of riot police, but is that an accomplishment in the end? Those decisions still get made and the majority of people passively accept them. I can't tell you how many times I've got the question "What's a G20?"

[Ele'ill]

The Black Bloc isn't that effective in my experience(very limited experience mind you). We show up, do battle, normal folks on the street have no idea what's going on, then "everyone goes home".

The Black Bloc is a manufactured riot which is just as hollow as the manufactured town hall meetings the ruling class has recently decided to humor us with.

But in places like Greece and France it's another story. Large numbers of people take part in riots, both masked and unmasked, with clear demands and focused anger. what's going on in Greece right now can't be ignored, it feels like the real deal.

We can say though, the black bloc has forced the politicians to barricade themselves in four star hotel bunkers surrounded by a wall of riot police, but is that an accomplishment in the end? Those decisions still get made and the majority of people passively accept them. I can't tell you how many times I've got the question "What's a G20?"

Let's ask the question- what wouldn't have been accomplished had there not been street battles? Perhaps the police would have stopped the seizure of tv and radio stations and the police would have had more time to intimidate and other wise block the larger strikes etc- It isn't just rioting in the street and throwing some bottles at cops there are fairly organized attacks occuring on banks, police HQ, and other major institutions.

Yes, the biggest problem I found, especially on my trip to Pittsburgh last September was that nobody knew what the g20 was. They didn't know why their city was cutting programs (to afford g20 security which was primarily to prevent peaceful demonstrators from shutting down intersections and otherwise stopping the event) they didn't know why there were 6500 police in the street and they were really upset about getting gassed in their own neighborhoods.

I don't think a single tactic works by itself. Ever. You need solidarity which is why North American black blocs are such unbelievable suck.

[La Comédie Noire]

Yes, the biggest problem I found, especially on my trip to Pittsburgh last September was that nobody knew what the g20 was. They didn't know why their city was cutting programs (to afford g20 security which was primarily to prevent peaceful demonstrators from shutting down intersections and otherwise stopping the event) they didn't know why there were 6500 police in the street and they were really upset about getting gassed in their own neighborhoods.

I don't think a single tactic works by itself. Ever. You need solidarity which is why North American black blocs are such unbelievable suck.

Oh yeah, I was at the Pittsburgh too and what I noticed was a lot of people just didn't care, except for the black community who perceived us as the reason they got gassed in their own neighborhoods. I believe one guy asked my friend "Why don't you guys riot in your own neighborhoods!?"

But that was one guy, there were a lot of people who were very supportive of what we were doing and helped us out anyway they could. I got offered free food, a ride, and two places to stay. The day after the illegal march people were less receptive, they were very angry about the property destruction, they saw it as needless.

I think that's the biggest problem in the United States, people still have this respect for authority and see police as just doing their jobs.

I really have no problem with the black bloc, I just think it's so far left of the political context in the United States. We're trying to grow red flowers in acidic soil.

I don't know about Canada, but I guess we are going to see this June.