Anti-Fascists, where the hell are you???

[Havet]

What's going on??? Where are you??? What are you doing???

Austria was shaken by a political earthquake yesterday when the neo-fascist right emerged from a general election as a contender to be the strongest political force in the country for the first time.

The combined forces of the extreme right took 29% of the vote, with Jörg Haider almost tripling the share of his breakaway Movement for Austria's Future to 11%, while his successor as Freedom party leader, Heinz-Christian Strache, saw his party soar to 18%.

The far right's vote doubled compared with the last election in 2006, putting it within less than a point of overtaking the poll victor, the social democrats.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...ia.thefarright

Arizona's governor has signed into law an immigration bill seen as one of the toughest in the US, despite strong criticism by President Barack Obama.

The bill signed by Governor Jan Brewer will require state police to question people about their immigration status if there is "reasonable suspicion".

The bill - which takes effect in 90 days - also makes it a crime under state law to be in the US illegally.

President Obama has described the law in the US border state as "misguided".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8641346.stm

Help is needed comrades! What are anti-fascist movements doing???

[RED DAVE]

What's going on??? Where are you??? What are you doing???

...

Help is needed comrades! What are anti-fascist movements doing???

Good question. Let's start with: what are you doing?

RED DAVE

[Havet]

Good question. Let's start with: what are you doing?

RED DAVE

Well, I remove nazi/extreme-right bumper stickers from public buildings. But after seeing these news it's definitely not enough. I certainly don't want to see history repeat itself.

What about you?

[Stand Your Ground]

Well, I remove nazi/extreme-right bumper stickers from public buildings. But after seeing these news it's definitely not enough. I certainly don't want to see history repeat itself.

What about you?

Well I think that's where it's heading...aside from complete militancy I don't know what else people could do to actually make a difference.

[Havet]

Well I think that's where it's heading...aside from complete militancy I don't know what else people could do to actually make a difference.

What does completely militancy englobe?

[Jazzratt]

THis sort of crap is a symptom of a wider problem, that of capital. It's not going to go away with "anti-fascist" action, the kind of action taken by the left against symptoms of the disease. I daresay the liberal opposition to fascism will mobilise and probably even appear very militant soon but any real long term solution has to be class struggle against capitalism.

The question needn't be "where are the antifascists" but rather "where are the conscious workers?"

[Havet]

THis sort of crap is a symptom of a wider problem, that of capital. It's not going to go away with "anti-fascist" action, the kind of action taken by the left against symptoms of the disease. I daresay the liberal opposition to fascism will mobilise and probably even appear very militant soon but any real long term solution has to be class struggle against capitalism.

The question needn't be "where are the antifascists" but rather "where are the conscious workers?"

I don't get it, how does capital imply extreme nationalism and racism? Doesn't "capital seek to" extend to other countries/races/nationalities, in order "to produce" more profit?

[Crusade]

What does completely militancy englobe?

EDIT

Well I might as well actually add to the discussion. There really isn't much you can do short off becoming physically violent and committing acts of sabotage.

[Jazzratt]

I don't get it, how does capital imply extreme nationalism and racism? Doesn't "capital seek to" extend to other countries/races/nationalities, in order "to produce" more profit?

Fascitic nationalism seems to be very efficient at dragging capitalist nations out of economic slumps. Also, capitalism is not a thinking entity (no matter what the "invisible hand" types will tell you). This kind of thing can and does arise from the national bourgeoisie within a given nation attempting to solidify their own power; at base it's exactly the same driving ideas as we can see behind the nationalistic free-market types in the tea parties.

[RED DAVE]

I don't get it, how does capital imply extreme nationalism and racism? Doesn't "capital seek to" extend to other countries/races/nationalities, in order "to produce" more profit?

During periods of capitalist crisis, as we are experiencing now, nationalism and racism are used to deflect criticism from the system itself. Racism and nationalism are endemic to capitalism: they're always there.

RED DAVE

[Havet]

During periods of capitalist crisis, as we are experiencing now, nationalism and racism are used to deflect criticism from the system itself. Racism and nationalism are endemic to capitalism: they're always there.

RED DAVE

Then they're attached to the system, not to capital itself, yes?

[Demogorgon]

THis sort of crap is a symptom of a wider problem, that of capital. It's not going to go away with "anti-fascist" action, the kind of action taken by the left against symptoms of the disease. I daresay the liberal opposition to fascism will mobilise and probably even appear very militant soon but any real long term solution has to be class struggle against capitalism.

The question needn't be "where are the antifascists" but rather "where are the conscious workers?"

That is very true. The oldest trick in the book from elites under pressure because their system is not working is to shift the blame onto scapegoats. No matter how implausible the scapegoat is, you can get enough people to believe the unfortunate group really is to blame.

It used to be Jewish people who got attacked in this way, but even the ruling class is exceptionally reluctant to do that these days, so immigrants get the blame.

It is inevitable that this leads the particularly gullible into voting for the extreme right. It is tragically ironic that votes for the BNP or the FPO are often blamed on people feeling "disillusioned from mainstream parties" or whatever when the people that vote for them are by and large the people that swallowed the most propaganda sent their way by the same mainstream parties.

[Bud Struggle]

THis sort of crap is a symptom of a wider problem, that of capital. It's not going to go away with "anti-fascist" action, the kind of action taken by the left against symptoms of the disease. I daresay the liberal opposition to fascism will mobilise and probably even appear very militant soon but any real long term solution has to be class struggle against capitalism.

The question needn't be "where are the antifascists" but rather "where are the conscious workers?"

The thing is that Radical Rightwiners are much better at selling their idea of Utopia than anyone one the Radical Left. They define the the fear people have for the future and put it into concrete terms--it's the Moslems in europe it's the Mexicans in the US, it's the Jews or the Blacks this or the that. I guess there is a natural fear of the unknown that the powerless in the world have--and these guys play right into those fears.

And where the Left could counter--they don't. They voyage off into the theoretical and refight Stalin and Trotsky and Mao. REAL Fascists never mention Hitler and their good old days. That's for the nutcases. They actually hate him like any Rational person. They use his tactics, they have his prejudices--they just disown the man himself--'cause it ain't cool.

They don't get bogged down in terms and class and ideas--they appeal to primal notions and they get their point across irrationally to a good number of people before it is moderated into the mainstream. They are protecting what they have.

A good example of the problem of the Left is--that thread on Lazyness. It presents such an unrealistic vision--no fights, everyone getting along, free sex, drugs and rock and roll with robot ass wipers to boot--all that for the most part to a guy without a job and two kids and a wife to feed. It just looks at that like it's pie in the sky. What is Communism going to do for this guy TOMORROW when he has no money to go to the supermarket?

Fascism will get those bastards (Mexicans, Blacks, Jews, etc) out of here and get a worker a job. And if "we (whites, Aryans, etc.") all work together --it can happen tomorrow.

What sucks is that the Communist plan IS BETTER but it takes a world Revolution--the Fascist are doing a much better job of getting their point across inching along taking each fight as it comes.

(Had a glass of two of wine so there's kind of a rant there. )

[Demogorgon]

To give a more recent Austrian election (that is to say in the last few hours). The far right has done poorly. Though it has to be said that the Presidency is largely ceremonial.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100425...r-f363c67.html

[Dean]

I don't get it, how does capital imply extreme nationalism and racism? Doesn't "capital seek to" extend to other countries/races/nationalities, in order "to produce" more profit?

That's the problem. For-profit entities have proven that expanding markets does not necessarily manifest as expanding infrastructure to these new areas.

Africa is a prime example. Capital has been taken from the continent at an overwhelming pace, there is an intense relationship to capital there (UBS funded S. African Apartheid, for instance) and yet this "new market" has not experienced the so-called benefits of capitalism.

This is because advanced markets consistently require production-disassociated paradigms, since production to a point serves to hinder capital in its potential re-investment value. This is precisely why the financial sector has exploded, and yet actual production of material goods has contracted.

All anti-racist, and other egalitarian outcomes of the expansion of the capitalist market, manifest as socialist-approximate systems - paradigms which provide for social welfare/equality. Capitalism only manifests approximate to a socialist paradigm in those places where infrastructure has reached advanced levels and other disadvantageous characteristics are absent. Capitalists seek to invest money where it can provide the best return, and this is almost always in the context of locations with advanced infrastructure. This exemplifies not only why the ethnic prejudice of markets are maintained, but also why free-markets in general, in rewarding for-profit ventures, inevitably reward ventures whose costs are low and rewards are high. Compensation and quality consumer goods are always trammels to the profit margin, so any advanced market will always marginalize these costs. Of course, these characteristics are why capitalism has not favored Africa, and other late-comers to industrialization - societies which didn't experience vast, productive infrastructure projects throughout the 19th and 20th centuries.

[Stand Your Ground]

What does completely militancy englobe?

Revolutionary war pretty much. As much as I dislike violence sometimes that's the only way people learn.

[this is an invasion]

I don't know what the OP is proposing... that we vote for a less fascist, but still very much capitalist, political party?

The only way to destroy fascism (and capitalism, which fascism is just an aspect of) is to self-organize, and encourage other workers to self-organize, against capital and the state. And on the street level, kick fascists out of our neighborhoods.

[synthesis]

THis sort of crap is a symptom of a wider problem, that of capital. It's not going to go away with "anti-fascist" action, the kind of action taken by the left against symptoms of the disease. I daresay the liberal opposition to fascism will mobilise and probably even appear very militant soon but any real long term solution has to be class struggle against capitalism.

The question needn't be "where are the antifascists" but rather "where are the conscious workers?"

True, that would be the doctrinaire response. But don't you think, to some extent, that fascism is an element of capital that is especially bad, one deserving of especially energetic opposition? Your reaction seems somewhat apathetic and myopic.

[Comrade Gwydion]

At first I was: "Ey, that Haider bloke is dead allready, wtf is he doing in elections?"
And then I saw the article was from 2008, and I felt safe and warm again.


But, this is happening all through Europe.
In the Netherlands a pseudo-proto-fascist party (Extreme nationalism, rascism, law & order, economic opportunism (originally right wing but with some pretty leftwing issues to draw in support), the only thing they miss is the massmovement on the streets, although they do have rethorics about 'fighting brigades cleaning up our streets' and shit.), was untill recently polled to be the largest in the country, in a neck-to-neck race with the conservatives. However, since the soc. dems have announced their new leader, the polls have shifted to a contest between the SocDems and the Marketliberals, while the conservatives and reactionairies are on 3rd and 4rd place.

Quite ironic, seeing as both the libs and the socdems were at an alltime low in the polls, they both profited from the new socdem leadership.

Anyway, yeah... In the European elections though, the reactionairies were shared first place with the conservatives. (both 5/26 seats).


It's all over Europe. In hungary I believe it's even the traditional fash: anti-jewish and anti-gipsy. In the rest it's usually the new fash: pro-israel but anti-islam.

[anticap]

THis sort of crap is a symptom of a wider problem, that of capital. It's not going to go away with "anti-fascist" action, the kind of action taken by the left against symptoms of the disease. I daresay the liberal opposition to fascism will mobilise and probably even appear very militant soon but any real long term solution has to be class struggle against capitalism.

The question needn't be "where are the antifascists" but rather "where are the conscious workers?"

I'm usually a bit leery of admitting this, for fear of being misunderstood, but since you took the initiative: the anti-fascist movement rather bores me. Not because fascism isn't a hideous monstrosity, but because the ultimate target -- the wellspring from which fascism and so much other ugliness flows -- is private ownership of the means of production. Every pair of eyes and hands that are diverted from abolishing bourgeois private property are diverted from the cause of freedom.

Of course, sometimes you've got to take your eyes off the ball momentarily to deal with an immediate injustice, like rampant racism, and, yes, immanent fascism, among many others. But in general, if focusing on the tumorous outgrowths of private property can wait a while, then I'd rather keep all guns blazing on target.