hey

[Chief Rebel Angel]

i'm new here... and i'm no communist, i'm a muslim and i believe thats the way... i am more towards communism since it has alot in common with islam, if we leave the atheist nature of communism out of it... i admire Che Guevara very much, and my main interest is the problem of israel... it would be cool to see what u guys here think about it... peace.

[pce]

chief rebel angel- though i am not religious, i come from a muslim background as well. i don't see how a group of people can all of a sudden be expected to leave their land and be expected not to mind. it sickens me how the u.s. is constantly helping the group with one of the best militaries in the world and not the group with rocks as their arsenal. if there's one thing that makes me happy about bush being president now is that republicans are supposed to be easier on the muslim countries (this is of course because of their oil, but nevertheless) i agree that some of the excessively violant things the palastinians have done did not help the situation at all, but they do these things only because they are constantly being pushed to the brink. some people say i feel this way because of my muslim background but i don't think that is the case.

[Chief Rebel Angel]

where do u think they got their super military from? israel is 90% america... and vice versa maybe... well its desperate measures the palistinians r taking cuz they're so fed up with the bulshit they have been put thru and anyone in their position would be too...

[pce]

exactly

[Edelweiss]

Please avoid a black-white view on this topic. It's NOT that easy:
Israel=evil US supported zionist conspirators, striving for world power
Palestine=good and brave people, fighting for their freedom

I've heard too much of this bullshit...

[Chief Rebel Angel]

ok, how bout this:
Israel= invaders
Palastine= liberators
?
fair enough?

[pce]

who said anything about israeil= evil/striving for world power?

the israelis aren't at fault, they just want a place to live just as much as the palastinians. i don't think how the situation is being handled is right. it's too one sided........

[Edelweiss]

who said anything about israeil= evil/striving for world power?

No one so far, and I hope no one ever will...just wanted to make this clear before the classic anti-zionist clichés would come up.

[Markxs]

i am not anti whatever just anti capitaliasm the religous background doesnt matter.

if there wasnt no religous LEADERS who want all the power, there wont be a war between the two nations.

the ppl of israel and the ppl of the palestine should work together to make the war end, they are no fighting there own ppl, the exploited ones. (stand up to the ppl who make them kill themselves, they both fight for the leaders not for themselves. and in the mean time the (religous) leaders sit back and enjoy there power

we need unity amongst the ppl. ( not blaming them because they see no other way out ).

wars will always be fought amongst common ppl if the ppl no who they are fighting for they would change, education is the key to V

-A-

[Chief Rebel Angel]

i understand that the jews want a place to live... but isnt it wrong to take it by force? like taking down palastinian real estate so settlements could be built in their place and the palastinians left homeless and forced to leave their land? i dunno it just seems wrong to me...

[myrmidon of Che]

The Jews are fucking Fascists!!!!! They say that they are God's chosen people. Have you people read the Old Testament and New Testament and the Apocryphal books? And the Muslims and Christians are not far behind. Shit... all the religions say that only their people are blessed and highly favored by God. Come on, I have read the Bible in its entirety. I even read the parts where they have all these censuses
(or censi if you like the Latin). Do you all understand what fascism is? The Jews came into the "Promised Land" and decimated all the people that lived there because God told them to. God said to them," Go ye into the land of milk and honey and vanquish the pagan
people living therein." The Jews happily slaughtered the pagans and enslaved others because they weren't Jews. It sounds a lot like fascism to me.

Re: Islam. I feel very wary of embracing Islam. They don't respect human rights. They circumcise women's genitalia and kill them if they have committed adultery (men as well) or if they have been raped through no fault of ther own they have them killed (this goes for the culture in India as well).

The people living in India are insane. The Brahmins, Untouchables, and all the other castes are pure lunacy.
Some Indians kill women by burning them if their husband dies. Religion is awful in many respects.


(Edited by myrmidon of Che at 8:04 pm on Aug. 7, 2001)

[Markxs]

al these problems you are talking about are there bacause of church and leaders not because religions

[Chief Rebel Angel]

yes, the jews claim that they r the chosen ones.. muslims do not... and neither do christians to my knowledge.. islam has equalised all human beings, and they r especially not differentiated in terms of race and wealth... infact, the first person who has ever got the honor to call for prayer from upon the holy ka'aba (where muslims go to pilgrimage) was a black person... and even in those times, black ppl were oppressed and victims of racism...

myrmidon of Che: u seem to be very misinformed about islam.. and i understand that since most ppl r.. and the "muslims" r to blame for giving the wrong image about there religion...women circumcision is prohibited, or at least mainly prohibited since there r always those ppl who argue about it... but if its allowed then its allowed in those minor, distorted branches of islam that a little minority follows... after all, no one should be denied pleasure... we r human, islam doesnt want muslims to hide in a mosque and prey all day.. infact that is prohibited... as for killing bacause of adultary that is so hard to happen, because it demands the evidence of 4 ppl... 4 PPL!!! how will u ever get 4 ppl to witness an adultry being committed??! and even the witnessess r encouraged to keep what they saw secret, and go and talk to those ppl who comitted adultry, and then if they didnt stop and repent, the punishment is due... and as for the raping subject u mentioned, that is so far from islam... it happens in jordan because of stupid narrow minded cultural practices that do not relate to islam in any way... so please do check ur facts before u point ur finger, and do not take ideas out of context... and forgive me if i was somewhat harsh or undiciplined in what i wrote...

[Guest]

States like Iran, Pakistan and Afganisthan are true fascist states. They seem to be thousands of years behind. States of opression, torture and murder. Since the Palestinian organisations like the Hamas are supported these states I'm fearing a possible Palestinian state and I understand the hard line against the Palestinans. Some here seem to forget that Israel is a state not much bigger than the US state of New York: Belive me, if Isreal wouldn't be supported by the U.S. with these massive weopon delivery, the state of Israel wouldn't exist anymore today and jews would be persecuted like it was over the last centuries. Israel is surrounded by enemies, it has the right to defend themself. Arafat is a hypocate asshole he is supporting terrorism and sending children on the steets to throw stones against armed soldiers while talking about peace.

[paris.]

I don't know what religion or culture is practicing female genital mutiliation and submission to the death, but it is being done, and I am fucking sick of this patriarchic world women are forced to live under. And it seems to me to be mostly practiced at the cross-road of where these 3 main religions were spawned.

[pce]

whoever you are 'guest'- arafat is not sending children to fight. the children are going by themselves because they want a place to live

by the way you can thank the u.s. for the state iran is in.

[Chief Rebel Angel]

afghanistan is way too extreme, it shouldnt be this way.. and "Israel is surrounded by enemies"???
allies, israel is surrounded by allies not enemies, do u recognize the raging will of arabs to open the boarders so armies can march into israel? and whos holding that back?? jordan, seria, egypt, and saudi arabia... those enemies u r talking about seem to take care of israel more than fucking america.. its all fucked up.. the leaders r corrupt... we r being held back by the agents that lead our countries... oh did i say agents? i meant leaders

[myrmidon of Che]

This is exactly what I'm talking about:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/sout...gers/index.html

Chief Angel Rebel

I am not too ignorant of the Muslim religion as I have read the Autobiography of Malcolm X. The Nation of Islam was practicing another form of Islam than the orthodox version which embraces racial harmony. But this orthodox version is too rigid to be a good medium to practice in modern times. They are too strict. Stoning adulterers and cutting off the hand, feet of thieves is too much for me...Sorry

(Edited by myrmidon of Che at 4:35 pm on Aug. 8, 2001)

[Chief Rebel Angel]

i think i clearified the point about stoning the adultrers... and as for the cutting off of hands and feet, it is an extreme punishment for an extreme thing to do.. why, u ask? because if the government applied islam in the right way, then no one will ever need to steal anything (no only cuba reached full employment once)... so the punishment was set to be this extreme because the crime (whatever kind of stealing) was looked upon as outrageous, because it will be like stealing without needing to steal anything... however, i think that those punishments shouldnt be applied now.. just for one reason and that is: no government is working by islam in the right manner.. so basically they r applying what they like and leaving what they dont like.. thats why the punishment seems way too extreme to apply in modern times, where there r poor and very needy ppl...

as for the link u posted, it only shows the faults Jats and Brahmins r making : "Sonu was a Jat while Vishal was a Brahmin"... if ur point was to say that there r backwards ppl in the world then point taken... and the main problem there was inter-cast relationships, where in islam and/or communism those would not be considered as a problem...

(Edited by Chief Rebel Angel at 2:16 pm on Aug. 9, 2001)

[jon doe]