You don't sign up for anything. You follow this ideology so one day, everybody won't have to worry about if they have enough money for the next meal.
PS: You seem like a troll to me...
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How to sign up?
Hello guys I'm new here. I've recently decided that I would like pursue a communist lifestyle. How can I get this to happen? I started to go to school to become an engineer but have realized that why would I want to spend the trouble doing all that work? I'll just try and live in a communist community. That way I can have an easier job, a house, and food all provided for me. I don't know why everyone can't think like this as well. We'd all be better off if no one worked the hard jobs and we just got handed everything to us. I might even decided to just sit in my house all day and eat food. It'd be great. So... Where can I sign up?!
You don't sign up for anything. You follow this ideology so one day, everybody won't have to worry about if they have enough money for the next meal.
PS: You seem like a troll to me...
"Face the world like a roaring blaze, before all the tears begin to turn silent. Burn down everything that stands in our way. Bang the drum."
Rofl seem like? This is pretty much in your face trolling.
Okay yeah, I may have been trolling here, but seriously can someone help me to see how anyone would want that kind of community. It seems to me if everything would be provided for you, where is the motivation to work harder? Why would I just not decide to sit in my house and eat my government issued food? Really would like to discuss and not tear down anyone or belittle anyone. Just would like a discussion.
Maybe you should study history a little. It's full of examples of major breakthroughs made by people who were motivated by things other than material reward.
In fact, most breakthroughs are made by people who are motivated primarily by things other than money. The money comes secondary as a result of their success.
People do not really want money, but what money could give them. Moreover, it is a bad motivator and creates a lot of socially unnecessary jobs (marketeers, street salesmen, consults, telephone salesmen as well as government created jobs which only exist to cut the unemployment numbers in decaying capitalism).
If you are interested in living in a community where you would receive free electricity, free food and free water, I think I have a proposal for you. We would also need more engineers.
Alright, at least you stopped trolling. Honestly, you could learn a lot from this site and the members here. I highly suggest you edit your original post so you can stay here to learn about what Communism actually is. I came here not knowing a thing about it and it's nothing at all like what I originally thought. Although I came here a "liberal".
Who here wants that kind of a community? I think you have us confused with Glenn Beck's "Red Scare Organization of Fear and Laziness"
Stuff provided for us? Bahahahahahaha
We believe in working like everyone else, we just think differently in how things should be handled. Instead of the people who don't work, mostly the rich who exploit their workers, (for your sake I'm going to make this as kindergarten as possible, just imagine a master and a slave) getting all the money from their works (the slaves picking cotton or other crops and the owner getting all the money) and giving as little back to their workers (slaves living in shacks and eating shit food), we want the workers to get what they worked for, the right to "sell" their products and get what is needed for survival first, and if they still have extra product they can get the luxuries they want, as long as they worked long enough for them.
Last edited by Mumbles; 22nd March 2010 at 00:51. Reason: I'm sorry I was being an ass with that last bit.
I would just like to sit around and make money off of other people's labor and not care about their welfare
Your life's lost
Nailed to a cross
Dead on foreign soil
For your God
(And their oil)
It's a collective effort. Everyone works so everyone could eat. I understand your concern, but this opportunistic thinking is a characteristic of capitalism, not communism. Getting more than what you give is called a profit, which is encouraged. And I mention this not to attack capitalism to avoid answering your question, but because it's necessary to understand my point. You brought up a scenario asking why would you work if the "government" was bringing you food every day, why not just sit in your house? My question is, why wouldn't you? For you to accept food from this "government" for nothing, SOMEONE would have to be working to make and deliver it to you. Why did they do it? Money? No. For the good of society.
"Society" in capitalism is always looked at as an external thing. What you have to understand is that you're PART of society. What's good for society is good for you. If one man starves to death, that's one less worker you have to contribute to society(Aside from the the fact that it's horrible a human being is starving to death, capitalism makes it so that you need a "what's in it for me" proposition). In capitalism, someone's failure means less competition. Failure is opportunity and someone else's success is taking a bigger slice of the pie that could have been yours. However, I don't want to make this about what's bad about Capitalism, but what's good about Communism.
You make a decent point. The problem I could see happening is that for a community like this to exist, everyone (and i mean Everyone) would have to be on board. Everyone could use what skills they had to work and better the community and look out for their neighbors like brothers. The only problem is there is no way everyone will commit to an idea like this. Wont ever be all peachy I'm happy doing what I'm good at your happy doing what your good at were all happy with each getting what we need to keep us happy: food shelter. There will always be people who think hey if I am doing "harder" work why do I get the same rewards as that guy who isn't doing as hard as work and vice versa. It can be sad but that is the way the world operates.
Can you give a real life example of a rich man exploiting their workers and not letting them sell their product? Just wondering if there is an actual example that is not a slave master.Who here wants that kind of a community? I think you have us confused with Glenn Beck's "Red Scare Organization of Fear and Laziness"
Stuff provided for us? Bahahahahahaha
We believe in working like everyone else, we just think differently in how things should be handled. Instead of the people who don't work, mostly the rich who exploit their workers, (for your sake I'm going to make this as kindergarten as possible, just imagine a master and a slave) getting all the money from their works (the slaves picking cotton or other crops and the owner getting all the money) and giving as little back to their workers (slaves living in shacks and eating shit food), we want the workers to get what they worked for, the right to "sell" their products and get what is needed for survival first, and if they still have extra product they can get the luxuries they want, as long as they worked long enough for them.
Unfortunately this would also mean one less mouth to feed leaving more food for others. (horrible way of thinking btw but just going along with your argument) This general way of thinking and looking out for #1 (yourself) is what will keep society as a whole from ever changing to a communist community in anyway. Which is why I must also have the same attitude.
That's not the "exploitation" we're talking about. Exploitation occurs like this:
A worker makes a living making chairs in a chair factory. Every day he makes 100 bucks worth of chairs. He gets paid 10. The boss takes the other 90, and minus whatever goes towards maintaining or expanding his little business, pockets the rest.
So, after creating 100 dollars worth of wealth, the worker himself only gets 10 out of it while the boss, by virtue of being able to own a factory, doesn't actually have to create anything. He just manages it and cashes in on other people's labor.
If materials and the tools of the factory were collectively owned, that one worker, as well as every other worker in his community, would have a say in production, would be able to divvy up the work, and would be able to share the benefits.
That attitude has hardly been with us for all of history. Hunter gatherer tribes tended to be more communitarian. The fact that many of the very first human societies tended to favor a "mutual aid" sort of set up, really discounts the "human nature" argument. I think.
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
Also, is it realistic for everyone to have equal things in a communist community. (I am really struggling to put thoughts into words here im kinda tired) But say I want a house on a beach with no neighbors so its quiet. What if everyone wanted that? Could everyone have that? I'm not sure there are enough spots on beaches like that for everyone to have on. Might be a bad example but hopefully you get my point. The way I see it, I try to work more than others so I can get stuff like that, that otherwise I couldn't afford.
Although it is not known as slave/master in the same sense of workers being considered property, being paid a wage is the same as being given that shack and crap food. The person who owns the factory/business isn't paying people based on what profit they've made the company, they're being paid per hour and it's most always less than the profit the company makes from that worker's labor.
Say you start with 1$ worth of scrap. A worker takes it and turns it into something sold for 5$. The worker is only paid 2$ even though they've done 4$ worth of work, why does the owner deserve the other 2$? And I know there's a cost in finding the scrap and marketing etc. But in a Communist society one wouldn't have to worry about most marketing, it's a form of unnecessary competition. And while I know that's a bit simplistic, but it's basically what goes on.
Like at your job, which I hope you have (and you should consider yourself lucky compared to people still looking, but that's beside the point), are you paid for what you make? Or would you still be paid the same even if you spent the same amount of time being lazy and unproductive?
Blah, Loveschach beat me to the punch :P Just look at his, it's better written.
Of course that wouldn't be possible, so no, not everyone would be able to get beach front property. They would, however, at least have a house, and the option of where to live, which is a lot more than workers in most of the world can ask for now.
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
Ah okay, thank your for clearing that up. My problem with this is there is no way everyone working in the factory would be able to run the production, everyone would have their own opinions as to how many chairs to produce. Its not just as easy as sitting back in your office and collecting money. There are more important decisions to make. People get to that position by making the right decisions and taking risks. Which also brings up a good point.
If the chair company fails because the boss wanted to produce 1000 chairs but only 50 people wanted to buy chairs, would it be fair to punish the worker as well or just the boss who made the choice to produce 1000 chairs and take the risk in that investment. sure the worker is out of a job but the boss could have lost everything that he has invested in the company.
Sure. Go to any factory, food processing plant, textile mill, industrial farm, or mine in the world. Do the workers there sell what they produce? Of course not! The capitalist sells what they produce and gives them a fraction of the sale. That is exploitation- separating the workers from their tools (means of production) and the result of their labor- in other words, wage labor. I explained the Marxist definition (which is quite different from the colloquial definition) here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/exploitati...69/index2.html
So there you go. Not only do you now know what exploitation in the Marxist sense means, you also know one of Marx's critiques of capitalism, and what socialists really strive for.Originally Posted by Me
You don't necessarily need to have the same attitude, but I understand your way of thinking. The one less mouth to feed thing WOULD be a good point if food was actually scarce. One thing you'll hear a lot of communists tell you is that we have enough food to to feed the world X times over(forgot the number). The main reason why the one less mouth to feed thing is such a concern for working class people is that OUR resources are very limited. WE personally don't have enough to feed more than ourselves and our family, but a very very VERY small minority has enough right now to feed everyone on your block for 5 years. This could all come from ONE person.
I'll admit that if resources were ever scarce and we didn't have enough to feed everyone, then there would be chaos, but the same is true for capitalism. This is already happening. But in a society where people have what they need, equal education, and we aren't being underpaid and over worked, there would be even more production. There ARE ways for this system to be exploited, I'm aware. No system is perfect. But really, why would you want to? I can see a very small minority of people who want more than they're willing to work for, but I honestly don't see that being a dominate mindset in any Socialist society. Also, I should point out that Socialism like any ideology has many different viewpoints and approaches. We have a diverse set of opinions on nearly every topic other than collective ownership of the means of production and abolishing classes.
Sure you can. That's what "Worker's Democracy" is for.
The boss gets bailed out, then.And even if he doesn't, I think it's fair to say that any boss is going to lose a lot less than many workers might, unless that boss a complete idiot and saved absolutely nothing to fall back on while he was cashing in on other's work.
Workers have to deal with unemployment or welfare, which, in the U.S., pretty much pays you less the harder you try to get out of your situation.
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
