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In 1947, the USSR about-faced from its insistence that Palestine not be partitioned. USSR representative to the Security Council Andrei Gromyko stated the following:
As we know the partition plan gave 55% of the country to a Jewish minority. The area alloted to the Jewish state contained very many Arabs who would have to leave for the area alloted to the Arab state. Also the Jewish area contained all the major ports, all the most economically advantageous parts of Palestine. And of course the partition agreement allowed the war in 1948, during which Palestinian Arabs were expelled from a full 78% of Palestinian territory.
Not only this but the USSR's endorsement of partition had disastrous consequences for the struggle in the Middle East. Egyptian and Palestinian Communists leafleted Arab troops heading for Palestine, calling on them to abandon the war that would only serve the best interests of British imperialism. In Iraq, the Anti-Zionist League led by Jewish cadres of the Iraqi CP was completely discredited and later disbanded, one of the factors which allowed the Zionist underground in Iraq to succeed in its efforts to move the Jews of that country to Israel. A full 90% of Iraqi Jews left for Israel by July 1951.
Basically I am wondering what supporters of the USSR during this time think of the decision which opened the way for the expulsion of the Palestinian Arabs from their homeland and that in many ways discredited socialism in the Middle East.
In the Israeli context, this act is what finalized the evolution of the Israeli / Palestinian CP from a revolutionary proletarian party to a reformist, pro-Zionist party which is an important pillar of the Zionist regime. The CP supplied weapons to the Zionists through Czechoslovakia, and the sons and daughters of those who did so are still in the leadership of the CP today. It is doubtful that the Zionists could have come to power without the criminal assistance of the Stalinists.
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Soviet Policy in Middle east was mainly based on one factor - British Strength and weakness. Even though emerged in the winning side of the war British position was severely weakened by 1947 - The Indian Subcontinent which was the crown jewel of the British empire was in verge of Independence from their imperialist possession and British empire didn't have both resources and will to establish dominance in the Middle east especially in the British Mandate of Palestine. Soviet policy was based on only one factor which was keeping American influence at bay in Middle east. They assumed that supporting the partition of Palestine the resultant Zionist state could be brought under their sphere of influence by gratitude of support or by diplomatic pressure. Given that Britain was uncooperative with America in middle east issue and British support for the Arabian cause as opposed to American and Soviet plans added ammunition to the Soviet decision ultimately.
But the Zionist understood that even though emerging in the winning side in the WW2 USSR was in the same state as the Britain as opposed to US whose industrial capacity was not damaged as much as Europe. So when it was proved that Israel was more favourabe to US than to USSR did the Soviet policy took a U turn.
Which proves that by 1940 even under Stalin Soviet bureaucracy had abandoned revolutionary goals of the October revolution in favour of its own existence and privileges. This is just the continuation of the Popular Front strategy, dissolution of Comintern etc.
The difficulty for Stalinists in this issue is they just can't blame Khrushchev and get over with it.
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
That's because the so-called "anti-revisionists" are in fact the supreme revisionists. Anything that contradicts their portrayal of Stalin et al as the defenders of 'socialism' and the champions of all the world's oppressed peoples is airbrushed out of their official canon. For instance; the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist), I think perhaps the most nauseatingly anti-worker/anti-socialist organisation I've encountered on the 'left', denies the USSR supported the Zionist project in Palestine and that they were simply trying to usurp British and US imperialist designs on the region, but not for the bureaucracy's own self-interest of course.![]()
Wow.
Where would we be without your thoughtful, insightful, and overall masterfully written answers?
Please do us all a favor and not be stupid. Some of us, including me, want to learn.
"Face the world like a roaring blaze, before all the tears begin to turn silent. Burn down everything that stands in our way. Bang the drum."
The sheer dishonesty in the portrayal of these events is hysterical. The USSR was fighting against Western colonialism, as Palestine was officially a colony under the British Mandate since 1920. That they made a tactical error in supporting Zionist forces, thinking the Left-wing Zionists would make a socialist ally in the region says absolutely nothing about "abandoned revolutionary goals." Fighting colonialism is about as revolutionary as it gets.
Stalin didn't have a crystal ball, and the anarcho-Trot trash that would complain about supporting Israel are the same ones who call Stalin anti-Semitic for denouncing Israel and Zionism even more fiercely after they made an alliance with Western imperialism.
As Intelligitimate said, it was basically seen as anti-colonialism. Most/All Arab states at the time were pro-US/UK, so the desire to influence Israel to be pro-Soviet was quite strong, not to mention that Jewish Socialism was far more notable at the time than Arab Socialism, plus seemingly more radical. Lenin wanted the British Labour Party in the Comintern because of his belief that it was possible to turn it leftward (due to its unique trade union structure, even though that later turned out to be wrong), same with Labour Zionism as a way to move Jews towards the left in Israel.
You'd probably praise Khrushchev for aligning most of the Arab states with the Soviets and deduce that Khrushchev > Stalin as a result.
* h0m0revolutionary: "neo-liberalism can deliver healthy children, it can educate them, it can feed them, it can clothe them and leave them fully contented."
* rooster: "Supporting [anti-imperialism] is reactionary. How is any nation supposed to stand up [to] the might of the US anyway?"
* nizan: "Fuck your education is empowerment bullshit, education is alienation, nothing more. You indulge in a dying prestige for a role in a bureaucratic spectacle deserving of nothing beyond contempt."
* Alexios: "To the Board Administration: Ismail [...] needs to be eliminated from this forum."
And both tactics were completely wrong, they would be at any time. It doesn't make it right just because Lenin was mistaken too. Socialists are supposed to learn from mistakes, not make them repeatedly.
Originally Posted by Intelligitimatehe we have to wonder why Comintern and its CPI worked actively to scabbed on the anti colonial struggle in India during 1942.Originally Posted by Ismail
Yeah given Arab states are so enthusiastic about freedom to Palestinian struggle.
I don't give a a fuck about whether Khrushchev supported Arab states or Stalin supported it. In my view USSR under Stalin and After Stalin was basically the same. The USSR's foreign policies aim is to secured the privileged existence of bureaucracy at the cost of working class of all countries.
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
World War II. In any case, communism dominated British fears post-war concerning India, as Suniti Kumar Ghosh noted in his 1985 article "On the Transfer of Power in India." He did, of course, also note that:
I would say that the Comintern was too interventionist. This conclusion was also reached by people like Mao and Hoxha, and its dissolution in 1943 was a positive event. Until then, of course, it was only inevitable that it represent what the CPSU wanted.
* h0m0revolutionary: "neo-liberalism can deliver healthy children, it can educate them, it can feed them, it can clothe them and leave them fully contented."
* rooster: "Supporting [anti-imperialism] is reactionary. How is any nation supposed to stand up [to] the might of the US anyway?"
* nizan: "Fuck your education is empowerment bullshit, education is alienation, nothing more. You indulge in a dying prestige for a role in a bureaucratic spectacle deserving of nothing beyond contempt."
* Alexios: "To the Board Administration: Ismail [...] needs to be eliminated from this forum."
So the way to fight Western colonialism is, er, to support the establishment of a predominantly European colony in the Middle East? Have I got that right?
If Stalin or whoever thought that Labor Zionism could be a "socialist ally in the region", he lacked any fucking clue about its politics or its history for the forty years before 1948.
I am not much familiar with the latter but the former is not so different from it. He effectively strangled the ML movements in India and Bangladesh by directing them to support Pakistan during the Bangladesh liberation war. It was also driven by vested interests of China in that region.
You know that it was Stalin in control of it right ?
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
It was to support a people who would fight the pro-British forces for independence.
You're the one that lacks any clue about anything, and basically spews anti-communist shit regardless if it makes any sense, hence the Cliffite cult you belong to.
I don't see where the USSR advocated an Israeli state that would oppress Palestinians. Gromyko said that the USSR would support a united state (in which both Jews and Palestinians would exist) and, if that was impossible for the time being, two separate states (which was a basic cop-out thing to say anyway).
Correct, and Hoxha condemned him for that. Hoxha noted as early as 1978 that China's policy was to become a superpower:
Originally Posted by HoxhaYes, and? It was also under the control of Lenin when Lenin was alive. The attempts of the Workers' Opposition to appeal to the Comintern in 1922, for example, had no chance of succeeding. The Comintern was an almost inherently Soviet-based organization and with that was led by the CPSU.
* h0m0revolutionary: "neo-liberalism can deliver healthy children, it can educate them, it can feed them, it can clothe them and leave them fully contented."
* rooster: "Supporting [anti-imperialism] is reactionary. How is any nation supposed to stand up [to] the might of the US anyway?"
* nizan: "Fuck your education is empowerment bullshit, education is alienation, nothing more. You indulge in a dying prestige for a role in a bureaucratic spectacle deserving of nothing beyond contempt."
* Alexios: "To the Board Administration: Ismail [...] needs to be eliminated from this forum."
Actually the only ones fighting "pro-British forces" were the Revisionists, such as the Irgun and the Stern Gang. They did stuff like shoot British soldiers and blow up the King David hotel. They were also viciously right-wing and openly called for a genocide of native Palestinians. Just the kind of freedom fighters the USSR wanted to ally with, hm?
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Last edited by GracchusBabeuf; 9th February 2010 at 04:13.
duplicate
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
But using Comintern as an extension of Soviet foreign policy started in 1930s well after the Bureaucracy had solidifed its position under Stalin and mjority of the Old Bolsheviks have marginalised. Everything followed that - betrayals starting from Germany,Spain and Colonial struggles and in post independence.
When you see it safly from a distance it is obviously "doing great".
It is possible to build gigantic factories according to a ready-made Western pattern by bureaucratic command – although, to be sure, at triple the normal cost. But the farther you go, the more the economy runs into the problem of quality, which slips out of the hands of a bureaucracy like a shadow. The Soviet products are as though branded with the gray label of indifference. Under a nationalized economy, quality demands a democracy of producers and consumers, freedom of criticism and initiative – conditions incompatible with a totalitarian regime of fear, lies and flattery.
-Trotsky
Marx & Engels ! Lenin ! Trotsky
And you're the Stalinist hack who believes an expansionist war fought by a colonialist minority against the indigenous population of Palestine, at one point actively supported by the Nazi regime, was a war "for independence" from British imperialism. If you accept that it was the Moscow government acting in its own self-interest and that that's justifiable then fair enough, just don't pretend you're a socialist or anything.