Soviet Support for the Partition of Palestine, 1947

[The Deepest Red]

Its time to take the bag off your heads. Trotskyism has ever been an ineffective petit-bourgois social-imperialist movement and it shall remain so until the personality cult of Trotsky is gotten rid of and a materialist perspective is taken on things.

In what way is Trotskyism "petit-bourgeois" and "social-imperialist"?

[Yehuda Stern]

Does it really matter in what way the Stalinists justified their support for Zionism? To this day I hear leftists justify their support of Israel by claiming that Israel or was socialist or democratic in some way that a Palestinian state could never be. Of course the Stalinists used anti-imperialist rheotric to justify what they did; it doesn't change at all the fact that it was a crime against the Palestinian people.

Zionism's character was clear from the get go: it massacred Palestinians, it attacked Jews who bought Arab goods, it set as its goal the conquest of labor and the land from Arab workers and fellahin. Stalin didn't make a mistake; he simply lied.

What's really criminal is that people still try to justify because supposedly the Arab states were more hostile to socialism. It certainly didn't help the Arab masses' attitudes that the USSR was supporting the Zionists in Palestine, now did it? And what a stupid attitude to take! Perhaps communists today should support the British army against the Iraqi resistance, because Britain is ruled by a labor party while the resistance is led by Islamists.

Oh, and Stalin isn't denounced as an anti-Semite for denouncing Israel. He is denounced as an anti-Semite because in his final years because of the Prague Trials, the Doctors Plot, and the Night of Murdered Poets. Stalinists say these weren't anti-Semitic acts; Neo-Nazis also say the holocaust never happened.

[cska]

Trotsky FTW!

[Random Precision]

Trotsky FTW!

THis has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Please don't post unless you have something concrete to say about the topic.

Also, trashed posts about the Naxalites,

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

In the Israeli context, this act is what finalized the evolution of the Israeli / Palestinian CP from a revolutionary proletarian party to a reformist, pro-Zionist party which is an important pillar of the Zionist regime. The CP supplied weapons to the Zionists through Czechoslovakia, and the sons and daughters of those who did so are still in the leadership of the CP today. It is doubtful that the Zionists could have come to power without the criminal assistance of the Stalinists.

That quote in your signature is unabashedly racist. Undoubtably.

I take offence to it, as somebody who was born into a jewish family. Not that I am some sort of religious or Zionist zealot, far from it, I adopt the natural Socialist position of atheism and anti-zionism. However, you should understand that even the non-religious/non-zionist jew is still a jew.

[Yehuda Stern]

DemSoc: first of all, how does that have anything to do with this thread? Second, my point exactly is that the quote is racist, and I use it to show all sorts of "leftists" who claim left Zionism was progressive what it's really worth. You just seriously misunderstood my intentions - and I don't understand why, as the quotation marks around "Marxist" should show that I do not approve of Hashomer HaTzair.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

DemSoc: first of all, how does that have anything to do with this thread? Second, my point exactly is that the quote is racist, and I use it to show all sorts of "leftists" who claim left Zionism was progressive what it's really worth. You just seriously misunderstood my intentions - and I don't understand why, as the quotation marks around "Marxist" should show that I do not approve of Hashomer HaTzair.

lol. Apologies. That post was written in the late hours. Sloppiness on my part.

No, it had little to do with the thread. Apologies again comrade.

[Coggeh]

I always wondered the question of did socialists support the creation of a state for Jews. I would suspect they wouldn't on the basis of an exclusive religious sectarian nation . But in the times of the 40's with huge radicalism along the zionist movement, anti imperialist against Britain and also their leftist approach in ideology among the grass roots which resulted in the creation of the Kibbutz which was praised as the reason why Israel survived its first troublesome years as a state.

I can see how some leftists would have supported the zionist movement, the same way some support the movement of Hamas/PFLP/DFLP etc .So the fact that the Soviet Union which had a huge jewish population, fresh out of the war against the nazi's and in full knowledge of the disgusting crimes against humanity which were done to both jews and communists pretty much exclusively by nazism led to a poor theoretic analysis of the situation in Palestine and thus supported a partition of Palestine to accommodate a jewish state. I have to agree with Yehuda though that despite all the maybe pros of the zionist movement any support at this time or at the time for the creation of Israel would have simply been wrong.Its just understandable where that support came from.

The only thing it confirms really is the Soviet unions poor international policy of the time on a national , pedantic and pragmatic basis rather than on a class basis.

[Yehuda Stern]

Coggeh: Lenin and Trotsky actually were willing to try and create a state for Jews in the USSR, which materialized eventually in a distorted form in Birobijan. However, the "radicalism" you speak of within Zionism is something that many pro-Zionists raise but none can prove. In fact, it has been shown in this thread and many others that progressive Zionists are figments of the pro-Zionist leftists' imagination. Then you compare support from an imperialist state for a colonialist settler movement to support from confused or reformist leftists for nationalist / Islamist national liberation movements.

I understand you're just trying to be objective and try to understand it from others' point of view, and that is admirable, but there's no avoiding the fact that those who supported Zionism at the time did so due to imperialist pressures and motives, and not because of any sympathy - for the most part - for the supposed radicalism of some Zionist groups or for the horrors wrought upon the Jews.