Why Are So Many Leftists Nilhistic

[Richard Nixon]

Why are so many of the leftists here many nilhistic in their outlook in life despite leftism in general being a very idealistic philosophy?

[Jazzratt]

Are you using "nihilistic" and "idealistic" in the informal sense, because not many leftists here subscribe to actual nihilist philosophies and a lot of our politics and beliefs are routed in materialistic (as opposed to idealistic) philosophy. If that's the case (you're using informal language) then I must say I'm stumped as to an answer.

If you're using the terms in a technically correct fashion (referring to nihilistic philosophy and idealism (as opposed to materialism)) then the answer is quite simply they aren't.

[Richard Nixon]

Are you using "nihilistic" and "idealistic" in the informal sense, because not many leftists here subscribe to actual nihilist philosophies and a lot of our politics and beliefs are routed in materialistic (as opposed to idealistic) philosophy. If that's the case (you're using informal language) then I must say I'm stumped as to an answer.

If you're using the terms in a technically correct fashion (referring to nihilistic philosophy and idealism (as opposed to materialism)) then the answer is quite simply they aren't.

I'm kind of informal I suppose. By idealistic I mean ideologies that hope to dramatically change and improve the world: Utopianists. By the same way by nilhistic I mean generally lack of hope and a lot fo despair.

[Jazzratt]

I'm kind of informal I suppose. By idealistic I mean ideologies that hope to dramatically change and improve the world: Utopianists. By the same way by nilhistic I mean generally lack of hope and a lot fo despair.

I imagine it's precisley because so many of us are "utopian" as you would have it that there is a lot of hopelessness. A lot of our members are younger and some may even believe that they will see revolution in their lifetime or that we're meant to be leading the working class in some way. When they see quite how far the left has got to go and that they are not, in the grand scheme of it all, that important to worker emancipation they begin to lose heart and become despondant. That despondancy manifests itself on this forum and you get the kind of members you're referring to.

That's my guess anyway.

[☭World Views]

There are some leftists that believe that because of the current sectarian differences and lack of formal unity among the revolutionary left; the day that the working class gets some power the different tendencies would fight each other to see what policies are implemented.

Whether or not that would happen is the subject of considerable debate. Some leftists feel disheartened by that thought.

[Dr Mindbender]

Why are so many of the leftists here many nilhistic in their outlook in life despite leftism in general being a very idealistic philosophy?

i think capitalists are far and away more nihilistic given their blatant contempt and indifference for the majority of the rest of the population.

[Richard Nixon]

i think capitalists are far and away more nihilistic given their blatant contempt and indifference for the majority of the rest of the population.

Please don't confuse all supporters of the capitalist system with Randians or anarcho-capitalists. I support the capitalist system because despite all it's imperfections it has acheived the greatest era of growth and progress in the history of humanity since 1800 and the most prosperous areas of the world are all capitalist.

[Dr Mindbender]

Please don't confuse all supporters of the capitalist system with Randians or anarcho-capitalists. I support the capitalist system because despite all it's imperfections it has acheived the greatest era of growth and progress in the history of humanity since 1800

Id argue we acheived that growth and progress largely in spite of capitalism, not because of it. It was useful around the industrial revolution in terms of bringing about the initial automated means of production and large industries, but it became redundant long before now.

and the most prosperous areas of the world are all capitalist.

So are the least prosperous so i don't appreciate your point.

[Zolken]

i think capitalists are far and away more nihilistic given their blatant contempt and indifference for the majority of the rest of the population.

I must disagree in that capitalists are very much believers in God/Gold and the prosperity such a deity bestows upon its devotees. In fact these habitual worshippers of mammon aren't content to horde material wealth upon earth for themselves but wish also to store up treasure in heaven as well. Thus it's an altogether foolish assumption to suggest capitalists are nihilists in that their entire psychology is based upon the creation and maintenance of an invented value system and the society which it spawned, being rooted in the fundamental idea that wealth alone is real (and the status it imparts) which in turn has given shape to conventional morality.

[Dr Mindbender]

I must disagree in that capitalists are very much believers in God/Gold and the prosperity such a deity bestows upon its devotees. In fact these habitual worshippers of mammon aren't content to horde material wealth upon earth for themselves but wish also to store up treasure in heaven as well. Thus it's an altogether foolish assumption to suggest capitalists are nihilists in that their entire psychology is based upon the creation and maintenance of an invented value system and the society which it spawned, being rooted in the fundamental idea that wealth alone is real (and the status it imparts) which in turn has given shape to conventional morality.

capitalism and theism arent mutually inconclusive.

Objectivists like Rand were aggressively atheist.

[RGacky3]

By the same way by nilhistic I mean generally lack of hope and a lot fo despair.

I don't see this at all.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I support the capitalist system because despite all it's imperfections it has acheived the greatest era of growth and progress in the history of humanity since 1800...

That is something that even Karl Marx would have agreed with. Indeed, he said something very similar in the first chapter of the Communist Manifesto. Of course capitalism is vastly superior to feudalism and the other systems that preceded it. But socialism will be better, and communism will be even better still.

and the most prosperous areas of the world are all capitalist.

First of all, as Ulster Socialist pointed out, capitalism covers nearly every part of the world, from the most prosperous to the least prosperous.

But even if that were not the case - or even if you wish to claim that some forms of capitalism are better than others - it is wrong to look around the world, see which economic system appears to be the most prosperous at the moment, and conclude that the system in question is the best that can ever possibly exist.

[Richard Nixon]

That is something that even Karl Marx would have agreed with. Indeed, he said something very similar in the first chapter of the Communist Manifesto. Of course capitalism is vastly superior to feudalism and the other systems that preceded it. But socialism will be better, and communism will be even better still.


First of all, as Ulster Socialist pointed out, capitalism covers nearly every part of the world, from the most prosperous to the least prosperous.

But even if that were not the case - or even if you wish to claim that some forms of capitalism are better than others - it is wrong to look around the world, see which economic system appears to be the most prosperous at the moment, and conclude that the system in question is the best that can ever possibly exist.

There is no proof to the idea that communism will work better then capitalism. Only theories no real world results. Every large-scale communist experiment (ie nation-sized) did not work. While you may say this are merely distorted forms of communism I have yet to seen a large scale real communist system happen.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

There is no proof to the idea that communism will work better then capitalism. Only theories no real world results. Every large-scale communist experiment (ie nation-sized) did not work. While you may say this are merely distorted forms of communism I have yet to seen a large scale real communist system happen.

And the exact same thing could have been said about capitalism 300 years ago, or about representative democracy 200 years ago.

To quote Mikelepore (and my signature): "Definition of a conservative: a person who believes that nothing should be done for the first time."

[SavagePostModern]

I'm kind of informal I suppose. By idealistic I mean ideologies that hope to dramatically change and improve the world: Utopianists. By the same way by nilhistic I mean generally lack of hope and a lot fo despair.

Enviroments of despair breeds despair.

[Luís Henrique]

It is impossible to be a leftist and a nihilist. Being a leftist means being actually active in a socialist/anarchist/communist organisation. People who stay at home whining may share a leftist worldview, and can even believe they are leftists. But they are not.

Luís Henrique

[Bud Struggle]

Nihilism is a movement based on Insurrections that took place in Russia during the 1850's-1890's , it is related to and a basis for insurrectionsim. I suggest you be informed before you throw a word around so loosely, makes you look like an ill informed ass I'm just messin'

Hmmm. I doubt the Russian definition of the word is the one being comsidered. I think they are talking about someting more along the lines of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

[cb9's_unity]

The window for socialism/communism has also been very small (at least in the view of Marxists). The mature type of capitalism that is ripe for transformation into socialism has only existed for a little over a hundred years. Compared to the life-span of other economic systems capitalism is in its infancy.