Thread: Paul Krugman on liberals' "trust problem" with Obama

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    Default Paul Krugman on liberals' "trust problem" with Obama

    Paul Krugman recently wrote a column in the New York Times on what he calls the "trust problem" between President Obama and the more left-wing Democrats of the country (called variously "liberals" or "progressives" here in the States). Basically Obama has been more than disappointing on health care reform; you can see this great article for details, but basically Obama has been in full retreat from his campaign promise for a single-payer federal health insurance plan; even a "public option" that is disadvantaged against corporate insurance may soon be eliminated from the bill that Congress is working on. Krugman is of the opinion that this issue is driving a wedge between progressive Democrats and the administration. Here it is:

    Originally Posted by Paul Krugman
    According to news reports, the Obama administration — which seemed, over the weekend, to be backing away from the “public option” for health insurance — is shocked and surprised at the furious reaction from progressives.

    A backlash in the progressive base — which pushed President Obama over the top in the Democratic primary and played a major role in his general election victory — has been building for months. The fight over the public option involves real policy substance, but it’s also a proxy for broader questions about the president’s priorities and overall approach.

    The idea of letting individuals buy insurance from a government-run plan was introduced in 2007 by Jacob Hacker of Yale, was picked up by John Edwards during the Democratic primary, and became part of the original Obama health care plan.

    One purpose of the public option is to save money. Experience with Medicare suggests that a government-run plan would have lower costs than private insurers; in addition, it would introduce more competition and keep premiums down.

    And let’s be clear: the supposed alternative, nonprofit co-ops, is a sham. That’s not just my opinion; it’s what the market says: stocks of health insurance companies soared on news that the Gang of Six senators trying to negotiate a bipartisan approach to health reform were dropping the public plan. Clearly, investors believe that co-ops would offer little real competition to private insurers.

    Also, and importantly, the public option offered a way to reconcile differing views among Democrats. Until the idea of the public option came along, a significant faction within the party rejected anything short of true single-payer, Medicare-for-all reform, viewing anything less as perpetuating the flaws of our current system. The public option, which would force insurance companies to prove their usefulness or fade away, settled some of those qualms.

    That said, it’s possible to have universal coverage without a public option — several European nations do it — and some who want a public option might be willing to forgo it if they had confidence in the overall health care strategy. Unfortunately, the president’s behavior in office has undermined that confidence.

    On the issue of health care itself, the inspiring figure progressives thought they had elected comes across, far too often, as a dry technocrat who talks of “bending the curve” but has only recently begun to make the moral case for reform. Mr. Obama’s explanations of his plan have gotten clearer, but he still seems unable to settle on a simple, pithy formula; his speeches and op-eds still read as if they were written by a committee.

    Meanwhile, on such fraught questions as torture and indefinite detention, the president has dismayed progressives with his reluctance to challenge or change Bush administration policy.

    And then there’s the matter of the banks.

    I don’t know if administration officials realize just how much damage they’ve done themselves with their kid-gloves treatment of the financial industry, just how badly the spectacle of government supported institutions paying giant bonuses is playing. But I’ve had many conversations with people who voted for Mr. Obama, yet dismiss the stimulus as a total waste of money. When I press them, it turns out that they’re really angry about the bailouts rather than the stimulus — but that’s a distinction lost on most voters.

    So there’s a growing sense among progressives that they have, as my colleague Frank Rich suggests, been punked. And that’s why the mixed signals on the public option created such an uproar.

    Now, politics is the art of the possible. Mr. Obama was never going to get everything his supporters wanted.

    But there’s a point at which realism shades over into weakness, and progressives increasingly feel that the administration is on the wrong side of that line. It seems as if there is nothing Republicans can do that will draw an administration rebuke: Senator Charles E. Grassley feeds the death panel smear, warning that reform will “pull the plug on grandma,” and two days later the White House declares that it’s still committed to working with him.

    It’s hard to avoid the sense that Mr. Obama has wasted months trying to appease people who can’t be appeased, and who take every concession as a sign that he can be rolled.

    Indeed, no sooner were there reports that the administration might accept co-ops as an alternative to the public option than G.O.P. leaders announced that co-ops, too, were unacceptable.

    So progressives are now in revolt. Mr. Obama took their trust for granted, and in the process lost it. And now he needs to win it back.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/op...gman.html?_r=1

    I think Krugman's column has been a pretty good barometer of liberal opinion in the US over the past several years. So what I am interested in knowing is, to what extent do you think the "revolt" of progressives that he sees is actually happening, and if it is happening, do you see progressive Democrats breaking altogether with Obama and even with the Party? And if they do start breaking with Obama in significant numbers, do you think the revolutionary movement should, or is able to, speak to them meaningfully?

    Discuss.
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    The Left Democrats will ***** about Obama but there will be no revolt. Wait for the GOP to nominate a conservative's conservative and they'll flock to him again.

    That said, if Obama doesn't act people in general will begin to become disillusioned and the press might actually start treating him like they do to average politicians and things could turn. As Krugman pointed out a week or two ago, if Obama passes healthcare and the economy makes any kind of comeback he's the next FDR. If either of those two don't happen, he's Jimmy Carter. Obama should stop listening to his advisers and buy an NYTimes for his own political sake.

    And yes, I realize he's not a socialist but I would really enjoy a nice long break from the GOP having control. Seriously. Don't be a moron and tell me there isn't a difference. It's not much, but it's definitely there.


    It would be cool if the left democrats broke off and formed The Progressive Party like there used to be, or if the GOP splintered into 20 different things. Make things way more interesting.
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    Obama is a fool for trying to appease the conservatives. There are a lot of Republicans who think the guy is pretty much the anti-christ. Its not just a dislike but in fact a hatred. He should have just pushed through the public option and had his way.

    I think there is a great chance that the GOP could eventually split, or that there will be a mass exodus to the libertarian party at least. The problem is that the healthcare issue is holding them together, if they win the damn thing who knows how much confidence they'll gain.

    If either of the major parties split the entire american political system will be shaken up. Third parties will finally be viable and the real american left could finally start to have a presence.
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    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    He was a genius politically for the come together routine on the campaign trail, and a pure moron for doing so once he actually got elected.

    In my opinion, he's already lost so motion momentum that it'll be an uphill battle now to pass anything meaningful. Sure, their bound to pass some package but nothing resembling universal healthcare.

    Get the feeling the democrats hold it out there like an apple in front of a horse, but never actually letting it taste it, just to run up the votes.

    Pray that Sarah Palin is nominated An interesting ticket that might keep the GOP together, I believe (and we're years away and Obama is trying really hard to keep the Republican Party viable) would be the Patraeus/Romney lineup. That could be a definite challenge from the right (of the right).
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    If either of the major parties split the entire american political system will be shaken up. Third parties will finally be viable and the real american left could finally start to have a presence.
    Don't get your hopes up. The entire electoral system, right down to the way congressional districts work, the nature of campaign finance, and the weakness of national parties in relation to their relevance as means of collective political organization, discourages anything other than two parties. If either party were to split, It's likely only one of the two or more splinters would stay relevant.
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    I don't think it is likely for any real split to occur within either party. While there is one narrative claiming the "Obama is a socialist!" propaganda is only really believed by a small petit bourgeois segment of the US population, my daily experience has led me to believe otherwise. I live and work in Everett, a crime-ridden working class Port city in Western Washington state. While the youth population seems to be more liberal-leaning, the adult population (or at least the segment of the adult population with which I interact on a regular basis) seems to be very easily influenced by corporate media propaganda and the like. For example, every one of my co-workers is either an unregistered conservative or a registered Republican, and my supervisor recently launched into a tirade about Obama's "Hitler care" bill. The belief that Obama is a socialist is strongly held at my workplace and from what I experience firsthand as well as what I hear from my friends and roommates, it is strongly held in many parts of the city.
    So based on my own experience, I just find it extremely difficult to believe there is any viable possibility for the liberal Democrats to break from their party and form a third party. Both because of the two-party system that prevails in the US and because I don't believe they would have a snowball's chance in hell of doing anything more than making a symbolic gesture. And let's face it, assuming this somehow did occur, we all know this liberal faction would be blamed and villified completely after the GOP took the White House in 2012. So no, I don't think its anything more than a liberal fantasy. And I think its also a liberal fantasy that any significant portion of the Republican Party will break away as well. I think everything Obama has done so far has just validated the Republican Party in the eyes of many Americans, so I don't see why the Republicans would break away from their party when they have a common enemy to unite against and a growing possibility of success in 2012.
    As for the segment of liberal Democratic voters who are disillusioned with Obama, and surely they do exist, I think many of them will find the 2012 Republican ticket to be sufficient impetus to cast their vote for Obama again, however hesitantly. I think the rest will probably not vote or vote for the Greens. And I think this segment is where the revolutionary left has the most potential for raising consciousness of revolutionary politics, and I think we should make a concerted effort to reach out to these people. It is very clear to me that this is our most-likely pool of 'recruits', so to speak. While many within the revolutionary left see liberals as enemies 'til death and would prefer to "combat liberals" rather than engage them, I think this attitude is demonstrative of the general state of strategic nihilism that plagues the revolutionary left and serves only as a bullet in the foot of the working class.
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    I said before that the public option was obfuscation. I also pointed out that single-payer was never part of his campaign promises. Although he has broken several of his promises, if any of these "progressives" actually paid attention during the campaign they could clearly have seen how right-wing he actually is.
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    While any split from the progressive democrats isn't incredibly likely I think the republican is more likely to split as a result of specific condition and factions within the republican party. Right now there is no major conservative that could appease all sides of the republican party. When a group of self-righteous and stubborn people can't agree on something it is likely that they just won't continue working together. When 2012 comes around it is hard to think of a situation where all factions of the GOP will agree. So while a split is in no way assured its something that should be on the radar.
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    It's fortunate that Obama is coming under such severe criticism from the right. While many people fawned over his good lookedness and youthfulness and blackness this means little unless he starts addressing problems within the country. His is a term where democrats can get ballsy and start pushing away right wing travesties; however, he is instead interested in inaction and capitulation. He has already squandered taxpayer money back into the monster. He has allied himself with all imperialist ideology. He even has an ideological pittance to return capitalist criminal Warren Anderson (of Bhopal heroics) back to India and has not honored their legal arrest warrant.

    Obama has done nothing but replicate fascist politics of his predecessor. He has managed to keep America's servicemen out of Iran and Honduras but that's saying quite little at this juncture in time.
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    I would not say Obama has engaged in fascist politics. And neither did his predecessor. Both spew nationalist rhetoric and engage in imperialist activities but that is it. Fascism is its own beast.
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    Obama has done nothing but replicate fascist politics of his predecessor.
    Fascist politics? What is your definition of "fascism"?
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    Fascist politics? What is your definition of "fascism"?
    The continuation of War, the lack of an increase in civil liberties. I didn't say he was Hitler.
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    I think it's focusing too much on personalities to blame Obama for the lack of forward movement on the Democrat side of things. I've heard no end of *****ing from some liberals about how spineless a lot of Democrat politicians are and how Obama is being too conciliatory towards the Republicans. I've also heard talk that "blue dog" Democrats are to blame, especially with regards to the health care fiasco since it seems a lot of them get kickbacks from the health insurance industry.

    It's also interesting to note that while the Republican Party appears to be in disarray, there has been an enormous surge of militant right-wing grassroots (or at least astroturf) movements such as the Teabaggers, Birthers, and "death panel" types as well as older forms of wingnuttery such as militias. Truth be told, some of the rhetoric coming from that lot verges on the hysterical if it isn't all the way there already.

    By the way, Obama is right wing, but he's not a fascist. Can we at least try not to water down political terms into meaninglessness?
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    I think Krugman's column has been a pretty good barometer of liberal opinion in the US over the past several years. So what I am interested in knowing is, to what extent do you think the "revolt" of progressives that he sees is actually happening, and if it is happening, do you see progressive Democrats breaking altogether with Obama and even with the Party? And if they do start breaking with Obama in significant numbers, do you think the revolutionary movement should, or is able to, speak to them meaningfully?

    Discuss.


    "Health Care: Obama Faces Angry Liberals"


    *Very* interesting article from the corporate press...!

    Looks like Obama's political ground is shrinking to the size of a pinpoint....

    My predictions at the time of Obama's election were that he would be pulled apart by political forces, unable to stretch across the yawning chasm that is national policy.

    For now I'm going to tentatively stick to that prognostication -- I don't think liberals / progressives are going to be quite as wishy-washy and capitulating to the Republicans as before, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be growing a backbone anytime soon either. Let's say that at best they'll hold their ground on the issues like health care and maybe pout a little.



    As Krugman pointed out a week or two ago, if Obama passes healthcare and the economy makes any kind of comeback he's the next FDR.

    Obama reigns as the FDR of 'Cash for Clunkers'.


    = D



    And if they do start breaking with Obama in significant numbers, do you think the revolutionary movement should, or is able to, speak to them meaningfully?

    Hey, we're here right now -- send 'em over to RevLeft!


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    Paul Krugman seems to be increasingly out of touch, maybe that Nobel has got to his head, maybe all this attention that he's been getting on a field he is just not stellar in, maybe it's just because all the competent moderate stuff he was first successful at just isn't going to be published these days at the New York Times. Regardless, he should've staid to what he knows, the more he branches out as the economist turned generic talking head the more we realize just how much better he was as economist, alone. I have nothing against his work, or him personally, I just feel that growing up thinking through the intricacies of international trade and applying them to become one of the world's leading economists. Then going on to be a quasi-failed pundit, is just disappointing. He's just not a good essayist for the circus that is current events.

    Anyhow, that aside - he is completely overlooking the problem.

    Progressives and liberals are a base that must be appeased, not in the slightest. They're a small part of the country and are greatly outnumbered by moderates, not to mention conservatives. The few that can still think critically, who have not completely gone head over heels for Obama (like, for instance, Krugman) make up a even smaller percent of that already minimal section of American society. Gallup polls, PewResearch polls, everything clearly indicates that it is not the far-left, or even solid left, that has given Obama his boost. Instead it is, was, and will be the moderates - the independents - not to mention a few conservatives to boot.

    No, what Obama needs to do is get over his failure of the imagination. A party that holds all the cards; the media, the Upper and Lower Houses, the Presidency, the other selection of state government positions. That goes on to say that they are not only stopped by the GOP, but then turn around to say they are merely a "violent minority" of "evil-mongers" who must understand that the "time for talking is over" is, well, lame.

    That's right - I said it.

    Scrambling around the country to not only say that one needs a "clear" and "honest debate" about healthcare sounded good. While also going off on tangents about the town hall protesters, playing the race card, whining about angry white men is a weakness we all hoped would be avoided. Whispering ominously about right-wing militias and Limbaugh Automatons, not to mention Hannity Terrorists "evil-mongers," is a terrible way to garner any sort of support for a bill that - by definition - requires broad support.

    I don't know about you, but calling all the fence sitters "un-American" like Nancy Pelosi did, just doesn't seem like good governance.
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    Firstly: it seems that the public option will not be dropped. The Democrats have the ability to pass it with or without GOP support and they likely will. Obama will likely support the public option's inclusion and go on a "well we tried to build a broader consensus and failed" stance.

    As for the left wing of the Democratic party breaking away: I doubt it. They've been trying too hard since the mid 90s to rebuild their party, and the left wing has been quite key in that rebuilding. If anything, the left wing of the Democratic party will increase activity within the party and use the party itself: pushing factions like the Blue Dogs out

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