To understand why the US is so conservative we have understand how businesses work

[spice756]

To understand why the US goverment is so conservative we have to understand how businesses control the goverment .

Or should I say why the US goverment loves businesses than the poor people.Well this post is not really going explain why the people are so conservative but why the goverment is so conservative and loves businesses than the poor.


Well ckaihatsu post topic here some time ago at many left sites even at revleft on how businesses get big and powerful but seem to have got deleted.Some thing about friends in businesses and kickbacks.And some thing about evolving door and lobbying groups.

But I need some one here to elaborate how this work.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don't think business necessarily controls government like the mafia might control a nightclub or a puppeteer controls his puppet.

Part of the way business "controls" the government is the way the government is set up.

When the US replaced the articles of confederation is was to allow more sea-trade, get rid of tariffs between states and so on. The government was set-up to promote trade for firms in this country and protect trade-routes and in the south to ensure that slaves wouldn't revolt or run away. With the Civil War, the north and south were in conflict because the slave system hurt industrialization and industrialization impacted on the salve system. Ultimately industrialization won out in the north and so instead of the old planters being the most powerful class, more and more power was determined by a tenant farming system and by banks and so on.

The industrialists needed the government to have armed forces to protect from strikes so police became more regular and the Pinkerton less necessary. They also needed a military - first to clear land controlled by natives, then Mexicans. Finally they needed a military to protect their trade routes or to build new trade routes or to install leaders more friendly to corporate interests.

Since trade ignores national boundaries and the manufacturer insists on having the world as a market, the flag of his nation must follow him, and the doors of the nations which are closed must be battered down … Concessions obtained by financiers must be safeguarded by ministers of state, even if the sovereignty of unwilling nations be outraged in the process. Colonies must be obtained or planted, in order that no useful corner of the world may be overlooked or left unused.

So I see the development of capitalism and the capitalist state as part of one dynamic process. You can't have American capitalism without the US state and if there was no capitalism, then there would be no use for the US state.

As for how it works today: it's basically the same. Companies didn't walk up to the Present and say: "Get us some Iraqi oil will ya!". They didn't need to because in the minds of our rulers, corporate needs and national needs are one and the same. To ensure stability for America means to keep China and other competitors in check and so controlling the middle east is a big part of maintaining that order. Vietnam had no oil or real economic resources to maintain, but if the US didn't keep Vietnam in line, then who'd stop Valenzuela or Colombia from doing the same and then hurting US business?

The Pentagon builds a powerful military not because it is simply power hungry, but because they want to ensure that America gets to call the shots and keep the world in a certain order and that order is economic dominance and the free-market and all that. Government and industry are all rolled together in modern capitalism.

[danyboy27]

why this topic isnt in OI learning or simply in the learning section?

[Jazzratt]

why this topic isnt in OI learning or simply in the learning section?

It's not in Learning because the member clearly wants feedback and/or debate from OIers. Which is the whole point of OI.

It has been moved to OI learning now, though.

[danyboy27]

i am not really sure to understand what the OP mean by conservative.

this can be applied to a large range of things such has: social rules, economy, freedom etc etc.

Personally i think the most conservative place on earth is probably saudi arabia.

[spice756]

why this topic isnt in OI learning or simply in the learning section?

Why because it has nothing to do with communism or socialism.It is a capitalism question why the goverment is for businesses or seems like the businesses control the goverment .

Well social democratic or left liberal are little more for the poor people they too are still for businesses .And no social democratic or left liberal will run on same platform for more than 10 years.The social democratic or left liberal moves to the right .

The social democratic or left liberal are under pressure to change by the businesses .And must be anti-social program ,pro-rich and pro-businesses .

[LOLseph Stalin]

Personally i think the most conservative place on earth is probably saudi arabia.

You wouldn't believe that my friend once called Saudi Arabia Socialist. I was shocked that anybody would even come to that conclusion. It's a monarchy, theocratic, and denies women basic rights. They can't even drive a fucking car!

[danyboy27]

You wouldn't believe that my friend once called Saudi Arabia Socialist. I was shocked that anybody would even come to that conclusion. It's a monarchy, theocratic, and denies women basic rights. They can't even drive a fucking car!

but seriously, i dont know if we can consider the us conservatives, i mean yes they are capitalist, i think everyone can aknowledge that, but there is also a lot of protectionism going on.

giving a lot of federal bounus to the american farm in other to avoid hem to bankrupt when faced to cheap import from brasil and canada isnt really capitalist.

if the us would be truly conservative they wouldnt have elected Obama.
yes we can aknowledge that obama still strongly support capitalism but he doing stuff that we cant really call conservative, the bailout for once.

[RGacky3]

As for how it works today: it's basically the same. Companies didn't walk up to the Present and say: "Get us some Iraqi oil will ya!". They didn't need to because in the minds of our rulers, corporate needs and national needs are one and the same. To ensure stability for America means to keep China and other competitors in check and so controlling the middle east is a big part of maintaining that order. Vietnam had no oil or real economic resources to maintain, but if the US didn't keep Vietnam in line, then who'd stop Valenzuela or Colombia from doing the same and then hurting US business?

The Pentagon builds a powerful military not because it is simply power hungry, but because they want to ensure that America gets to call the shots and keep the world in a certain order and that order is economic dominance and the free-market and all that. Government and industry are all rolled together in modern capitalism.

Very well put, the Capitalists control the economy, so to the government, the health of the capitalists equal the health of the economy.

[spice756]

ckaihatsu had good post on this and how it works but it seems to have got deleted.

Very well put, the Capitalists control the economy, so to the government, the health of the capitalists equal the health of the economy.

In US it is no no for the government to tell Capitalists what to do.

[danyboy27]

ckaihatsu had good post on this and how it works but it seems to have got deleted.



In US it is no no for the government to tell Capitalists what to do.

this is quite innacurate. if it was the case there would be no health or sanitation standards respected in the us, factories would dump ton of chemical inside of the us water supply, there would be industries manifacturing crack and meth legally, there would be legal sales of babies and peoples has well.

of course the us is less likely to dirrectly threaten its own capitalist class, bu the state still have a lot of weight.

[RGacky3]

In US it is no no for the government to tell Capitalists what to do.

Of coarse they can tell Capitalists what to do, but the fact is ultimately the Capitalists, as a class are in control.

this is quite innacurate. if it was the case there would be no health or sanitation standards respected in the us, factories would dump ton of chemical inside of the us water supply, there would be industries manifacturing crack and meth legally, there would be legal sales of babies and peoples has well.

of course the us is less likely to dirrectly threaten its own capitalist class, bu the state still have a lot of weight.

The reason for that is essencially that, the state takes care of externalities, and makes regulations to try make Capitalism sustainable (something Capitalists would'nt do on their own.)

[JimmyJazz]

Very well put, the Capitalists control the economy, so to the government, the health of the capitalists equal the health of the economy.

And to academics, understanding why capitalists do what they do equals understanding economics.

It amazes me sometimes how narrow-minded the opponents of socialism are.

[danyboy27]

The reason for that is essencially that, the state takes care of externalities, and makes regulations to try make Capitalism sustainable (something Capitalists would'nt do on their own.)

but you dont denies that the state do have a lot of weight.

[RGacky3]

Sure thye have a lot of weight, but its relative.

[spice756]

this is quite innacurate. if it was the case there would be no health or sanitation standards respected in the us, factories would dump ton of chemical inside of the us water supply, there would be industries manifacturing crack and meth legally, there would be legal sales of babies and peoples has well .

You looking at it too conservative .Look at the history it was a tough tough tough fight to get high standard for environmental and health standard!!! And to this day the US is of chart of the left party views on environmental and health standard. China dumps waste and batteries every where and factories pollute like mad .The factories in the US are better now than what it was like before but stil not what it should be like.In the past 20 years there has been a major movement the green movement like protest and rallys.

Of coarse they can tell Capitalists what to do, but the fact is ultimately the Capitalists, as a class are in control.

Because we are tought in the news ,school ,mom ,dad and older people that say left party have too much control like high tax for the businesses , too pro- worker , monoply laws and faire capitalism ,environmental and health standard laws too high , wages and benefits too high ,walfare state is bad ,too much for the poor, free stuff so on.

This sound bite propaganda stays in peoples mind so people do not demad a change.In Europe left party are viewed has okay and in the US has evile.In the US we are tought left party are evile and not to be trusted and tought conservative to be good and trusted .In the US communists , socialists and social democratic are viewed has evile and not to be trusted and liberals viewed has potheads and too left .This propaganda keeps in peoples mind and keeps them pro-conservative and conservative viewed has good and trusted.

The capitalists want conservative and will do any thing to destroy left party.

Very well put, the Capitalists control the economy, so to the government, the health of the capitalists equal the health of the economy.

I think you mean to say small businesses have no control and big businesses have control over the goverment..

I think you have not elaborate on how businesses have this control over the goverment.

I get Bush was oil man before and his friends are in oil making business but not all where business man or have friends in business .

[danyboy27]

You looking at it too conservative .Look at the history it was a tough tough tough fight to get high standard for environmental and health standard!!! And to this day the US is of chart of the left party views on environmental and health standard. China dumps waste and batteries every where and factories pollute like mad .The factories in the US are better now than what it was like before but stil not what it should be like.In the past 20 years there has been a major movement the green movement like protest and rallys.

.

imagine how it would be without no state to regulate those fragile progress. i dont defend capitalism but capitalism without state is like a mad dog without a leash