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i wasnt sure if to put this here or in Theory, but since its Che's theory.
do you guys think that this is a good thought to follow?
"one must not wait for conditions to be right..."
i have to disagree with his theory on this. the conditions must be right, and this is (what i think) that lead to his failed mission in Africa and eventually to his death in Boliva, in none of these countries were the conditions right.
what do you guys think?
Yo soy un caracol
It was not only that "conditions" were not right, it was also that he had no support...particularly, not after his speech of the Tricontinental...which didn't certainly please the Kremlin.
In addition, Congo presented a cultural problem (and language! = Swahili + French), and Kabila wasn't actually helping Che.
Something similar happened in bolivia, were the Communist Party (Monje, specifically) didn't support Che either.
my instincts of temperment have to disagree with you bluerev, yet don't take no offense, very few agree with me.
my theory is that Che played a hand in setting up the Black Panthers only because I believe in Che's insight and to say we knew what he was thinking all of the time is a mistake on our part.
I can say that I am proud of what the Black Panthers accomplished and I say this without any prior knowledge of their cause or intentions.
We are fools if we continue to look at the obvious and neglect to seek our own answers. How can we be truly revolutionary if we look to the past for the answers? We cannot. We can find the answers together, no matter what we believe in. Let us stand on our own!
The world is yours!
\"The great masses of the people. . .will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one.\"-Adolf Hitler
If the conditions are right, and you speak or take an action that you have in your mind, you will succeed. And if the conditions arent right and you tried to do what you wanted to do or said what you wanted to say but failed... you still achieved one thing.
You made a STATEMENT.
The full quote is "We need not always wait for all the revolutionary conditions to be present; the insurrection itself can create them."
If I waited for the condition to be perfectly right for me to get up in the morning, well--- you know where I'm heading. TooChe...
"For all great tasks, passion is needed. And for The Revolution, passion and audacity are needed in large doses." Comandante Che
If there were ppl outside your house shooting each other you would wait until they stopped in order to get up...hence you would wait for the conditions to be right.
Yo soy un caracol
I have to agree with "ireallyhadablackout" (love the name).
xox
Domino
Formerly "tetelives".
It was very interesting on what "ireallyhadablackout" said and I think I agree with that!!!
"Isang Komunistang Konstitusyon ang kailangan ng Pilipinas para walang maghirap at para matanggal lahat ng mga korap na opisyal ng gobyerno."-Tan
I suppose you're right about that, bluerev002. People shooting each other outside the house wouldn't exactly put a spring in my step.
"For all great tasks, passion is needed. And for The Revolution, passion and audacity are needed in large doses." Comandante Che
well, I think the conditions were "right" in the congo......they just has sweet-shit-all-lazy-asses as their top leaders (sorry, but I'm angry at the lack of dicipline possessed by the Congolese, ugh)
I don't think the conditions need to be "right", aslong as there is poverty and wide spread hardship, the people will want change. But mind you, I'm not saying that I could just form a militia and take over Nova Scotia
But in a third world country, you could sit around all day waiting for conditions to be "right", but if no one wants to take up arms because their excuse is that they're "waiting" for the air to ripen, it isn't going to happen at all. SOMEONE HAS TO TAKE A FIRST STEP, that's why I believe that the insurrection itself can create the spark needed to ripen the people for social overhaul.
(Edited by felicia at 7:30 pm on Mar. 13, 2003)
This is not on the subject, but I like your new avatar Felicia!
---Comrade Yerba
"For all great tasks, passion is needed. And for The Revolution, passion and audacity are needed in large doses." Comandante Che
>well, I think the conditions were "right" in the congo......they just has sweet-shit-all-lazy-asses as their top leaders (sorry, but I'm angry at the lack of dicipline possessed by the Congolese, ugh)<
Yes-yes!!! You are clearly right!!! As one guirillero said:"Damn, they are shooting with closed eyes!!!"
Had Patrice Lumumba lived, I wonder how different the situation would've been in the Congo. I wonder if conditons would have been right. I wonder if Che would have even had to go. Like Che in Bolivia, it seems that Lumumba didn't have enough allies or back up. Then the Belgians and the Central Intelligence Asswipes entered the picture. The rest is history.
"For all great tasks, passion is needed. And for The Revolution, passion and audacity are needed in large doses." Comandante Che
interesting point.
It's a shame really, it could've happened. From what I've read, guevara was making excellent contact with peasants/ non-guerrilla's in the area. It seems to me that this "revolution" was just another way for some congolese to kill time, and for their "leaders" to give themselves the unearned privlege of being called a "leader" of a revolution, when they just sat back on their stupid asses and didn't get into the fighting. It makes one wonder if things would've been any more productive if guevara was given more control over the congolese fighters, because as we well know, the cubans in the Congo were much more diciplined.
But I'm not trying to insult the Congolese "guerrillas" that were in fact blindly risking their lives.....maybe thinking that they were contributing to some greater good. Anyone who takes up arms to fight against an "evil", be it against oppression, or communism, has - to a degree- my respect, whether they are fighting for or against the cause that I have sided with, because they are brave enough to fight for what they believe in.
Felicia: good poing, good point, and good point.
the Congo "guerillas" were really too lazy, and the Cubans got tired of it all. unless I'm mistaken, a lot of Cubans left the Congo to go back to Cuba because of this. I wonder why they were so lazy though, could it have been from lack of cummunication? Who knows.
Although, I belive that the people being ready to fight to the death for the revolution was a factor needed for the conditions to be right. Again, unless I'm mistaken, Che mentioned that the workers and the pesants neede to be willing to fight for the conditions to be right. Either way, it was a major fault of the Congo pesants to not follow orders and being over-super stitios(however you spell that)
Yo soy un caracol
thanks
.......superstitious
Yes, that their magic drink would protect them from bullets......erm, no comment, lol. However it is important to respect cultural differences and traditions, but that was humourous none-the-less. :biggrin: But then again, that whole lake incident was strange.
I think that they were lazy because of their lack of training and dicipline, they maybe expected to take control over the country quickly, and maybe really weren't in it for the long haul. And the whole "leader" situation........if the leaders weren't really involved in the fighting....who the hell trained the guerrillas? Or made sure that what training they had was sufficient?
oh, did anyone hear about what happened in the Central African Republic? I don't know if there's a thread started.....
But apparently some rebels captured the capital over the weekend in less than one day of fightingIs that possible? In only one day? Ha, but I suppose that just because the capital is captured it doesn't mean the rest of the country is following suit.........
That's right. Didn't Che tell the Cubans that were going on the Congo mission to "consider themselves already dead?" Maybe the Congolese did not have that mindset. They wanted to survive. According to Che, a real guerilla fighter:
...is ready to give his life, but the positive quality of this guerilla warfare is precisely that each one of the guerrilla fighters is ready to die, not to defend an ideal, but rahter to CONVERT IT TO REALITY. This is the basis, the essence of guerilla fighting."
"For all great tasks, passion is needed. And for The Revolution, passion and audacity are needed in large doses." Comandante Che
