What is the purpose of it?
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2010 US Social Forum
The second US Social Forum will be held in Detroit, Michigan in 2010. I thought I'd create a post about it (maybe it should be stickied).
What is the purpose of it?
I don't know exactly what the US Social Forum is, but here is a link to the website for the 2010 forum: http://www.ussf2010.org/
Might be worth checking out, I don't know.
Life is something worth dying for.
Uniting all progressive opposition to capitalism?
I never knew you had one in the US so i'm pretty happy to hear about it. Is it well attended?
I would like to attend the next big one which is in South Africa I think.
The last one was (which was the first ever United States Social Forum) in 2007 in Atlanta. It was a pretty big event (from what I heard).
Since we don't have a big fat get together for the revolutionary left, this will have to do.
I have lived in the monster and I know its entrails; my sling is David's. -Jose Marti
...revolutionaries are anti-civilisation because we are opposed to what class society defines as 'civilized' and desireable; because class society and 'civilization' are two-sides of the same coin. Hierarchal organisation, parliaments, commerce, property rights, the police, law and order, fences, borders, religious institutions, these are the things that define 'civilization.' These are the institutions upon which 'civilized society' and class society are based; and all of these will be destroyed when capitalism, the state --- when bourgeois society is pulled down and trampled on by the exploited and oppressed in the struggle for liberation. - bleeding gums malatesta
And that's why on their front page there is a picture of a guy supporting workers unions... How about providing some analysis instead of just slandering leftist groups that don't fit into your revolutionary mold.
Alas, I don't know much about this group myself but if it is more moderate, which it appears to be at first glance, is there any effort to have a large radical leftist presence there? I mean once a person believes their fighting capitalism you would think they would be more open to our more radical leftist politics.
Everything above is open to criticism. It's the only way to learn.
The independence of the working class means no involvement in the fight for reforms?
This is at least better than the last post you made. However I was unaware that the petty bourgeoisie was so interested in unionizing workers.
My problem is when people simply label something petty-bourgeoisie because they don't believe it it radical enough. I have to be reminded of when I first starting searching for a communist group to associated with. I was disgusted when a Stalinist group defined the Trotskyists as a "petty-bourgeois" phenomena and then, if I remember correctly, seeing a Trotskyist group do the same thing to the Stalinists. So while I'm not saying the social forum is the same thing as those two groups I'm all too familiar with the term petty bourgeois being used as an insult more than a description
Everything above is open to criticism. It's the only way to learn.
Fuck yeah Detroit.
It seems like there were quite a few revolutionary socialist groups that attended the last one...should be interesting.
I found this on their site
Sounds like a little more than a get together for the petty bourgeois left. It is calling all classes to fight modern capitalism, including proletarians.
I would bet the main characterization of the Social Forum is that is moderate since it seems to be calling on a lot more than the petty bourgeoisie. In that instance there is not reason why the radical left should not let its presence be felt there. Most of the people there are fighting against modern capitalism and we have a solution for them. So while I understand and agree with you that the proletariat should not be following anyone in the revolution, meetings like this should be a good place to let our opinions be known. After all I have to imagine a place like that would be more receptive to our message than any other large american political forum.
Everything above is open to criticism. It's the only way to learn.
I went to the Atlanta Forum in 2007. Happiest time in my short life. Not extatic about going to Detroit, but it's probably worth it.
Discuss.
Again from their site
Clearly limited to the petty-bourgeoisie...
And yes workers were at Obama's rallies but the rallies weren't fighting against capitalism. If there are those open to fighting capitalism why in the world would we not try to radicalize them. Remember that most americans have not been given a fair or accurate interpretation of communism. If they are already anti-capitalist they will be more receptive when they receive their first real lessons on socialism and communism.
Why do we want proletarians to only here the message of class collaboration. Right now the moderates are organizing mass meetings against capitalism and influencing proletarians. We should be using their organization to spread our own ideology.
Talking with the other class and conceding anything to them are two different things entirely.
The moderates and the "petty bourgeoisie" are offering those things. If we let them preach their message, unchallenged to the public, then the existence of capitalism will be prolonged.
We need to be clear and honest and realize that association with those we have differences is not collaboration. We can talk to them about how to change society without changing our ideals. Or do you believe your ideology is so weak that spending any time with the opposition will change it?
Everything above is open to criticism. It's the only way to learn.
Show me the large purely proletarian forum and I may go to that instead.
However I will never understand your reluctance to challenge what is dominating the left right now. Why are you so content to let them dominate the left and why can't radical leftists and moderate leftists ever interact? What is the strategy of not taking on the moderates face to face. It is impossible to be constantly shouted down at the forum, you could get at least some one on one interaction.
Everything above is open to criticism. It's the only way to learn.
Congratulations, you have proven that you can continue arguing without any evidence at all.
I've looked more into the social forum and its just a place to discuss anti-capitalist politics. They don't really have many specific beliefs at all. Regardless of who its organized by why do you oppose this? To me a place that accepts working class people and fights capitalism sounds pretty good. But I guess that is your problem with it. You care less about fighting capitalism and more about implementing your specific beliefs.
Sure many if not most of them won't completely agree with us but we should support the movement against capitalism. Just because we don't agree on many issues doesn't mean we can even associate with them.Originally Posted by The Communist Manifesto
Everything above is open to criticism. It's the only way to learn.
I am going to make sure I go to this. By then I will have a car.
America is just the country that shows how all the written guarantees in the world for freedom are no protection against tyranny and oppression of the worst kind. There the politician has come to be looked upon as the very scum of society. - Peter Kropotkin
Well, that just sounds way too perfectionist. This is a conference for the real left in this country not some Obama rally. Yeah, they're probably not all socialists. Certainly having a stronger left-wing movement in this country would benefit us? The anti-war movement is in stagnation, other movements are demoralized. You have to participate before you can lead.
Don't listen to all the haters. It is going to be great and I will be there doing stuff!
Ok, so there are people out there who aren't taking a class approach to their politics. We would like them to take a class approach to politics. But we shouldn't talk to them until they take a class approach to politics? It's hard to get more idiotic and non-productive than your argument here is.
At this point I'm not even sure if you are reading my posts. I don't want to do anything 'for the sake of doing it'. I want there to be a presence at this convention for the sake of radicalizing already anti-capitalist people.
If I go to this thing (I would love to but i'm not sure what my situation will be like in a year) I would love to hear these "petty bourgeois" (as you insist on calling them) people speak. What would be a better forum to critique them? Or at the very least gain practice in debating them.
Care to explain what "and worse" is?
Everything above is open to criticism. It's the only way to learn.
