Results 21 to 40 of 41
No you cant, obviously you are completely retracted from reality. There are things that exist precisely to stop people from enjoying their deserved freedom, its called private and unequal ownership of wealth, the capitalist state, oh yeah and a lot of guns and bombs.
Here's where you completely ignore history, well, that's kind of every where in your posts, isn't it?
If you took a second to think about it, what is the foremost reason why you can enjoy the "freedom" you talk about? Technological progress, and the increasing socialization of production; the first time humans had anything more than they needed, a surplus, was when technology made it able for humans to develop an ever growing surplus, thus humans could now have leisure/non-working time as well as the ability to own/distribute the surplus (as well as the very production of this surplus of goods) in a certain way. This further development of society is what gives you the ability to even think about freedom; and it's a shame you could care less about factories being bombed, since many people's freedom will be taken from them by the necessity to rebuild them.
Pssh. Any State is bad, capitalist and communist alike; I can see where the guns and bombs might be a problem... point taken.
Why would I want to think about freedom? I'd much rather spend my time living it. Who said they had to rebuild it, all it'll do is fuck up the sky.
Previously Green Apostle
[FONT=Arial]A coward hides behind freedom. A brave person stands in front of freedom and defends it for others. --Henry Rollins[/FONT]
It should be NOW!
America is just the country that shows how all the written guarantees in the world for freedom are no protection against tyranny and oppression of the worst kind. There the politician has come to be looked upon as the very scum of society. - Peter Kropotkin
Less than 10 years from now, maybe even within 5 years if we're lucky.
I've heard some ridiculously pessimistic views, like it happening 50 years from now, sorry, I don't think so
But then again, the revolution obviously isn't going to happen tomorrow.
I give it 5 to 150 years.
"We are now becoming a mass party all at once, changing abruptly to an open organisation, and it is inevitable that we shall be joined by many who are inconsistent (from the Marxist standpoint), perhaps we shall be joined even by some Christian elements, and even by some mystics. We have sound stomachs and we are rock-like Marxists. We shall digest those inconsistent elements. Freedom of thought and freedom of criticism within the Party will never make us forget about the freedom of organising people into those voluntary associations known as parties."
--Lenin
Socialist Party (Debs Tendency)
I say December 12, 2012.
Nah, but within 150 years.
50 years is pessimistic to you?
I've heard some ridiculously pessimistic views, like it happening 50 years from now, sorry, I don't think so
Not trying to rain on your parade or anything, but think about the sixties - the protests, the mass movements. I'm sure if the revolutionary left had been asked in the sixties when they thought the revolution would be, they'd say "any day now". But 50 years later, no revolution. In fact, not even any mass movements, really. The revolutionary left, since the sixties, has regressed to a nearly-inaudible murmur. I'd wager that, probably in the entire history of the American revolutionary left, now is the time when it is at its weakest. And this is not me being pessimistic, I have no interest in pessimism - this is, in my view, a very levelheaded evaluation of the situation. To me, the suggestion that a revolution will occur in 50 years is optimistic, but five to ten... that just seems like the voice of mania.
In all honesty, I'm just baffled how one could possibly think, circumstances being as they are on the left, that a revolution might occur in five to ten years..? What is the logic behind this?
To use this analogy again, I feel like the revolutionary left in America is behaving with regard to "the inevitable revolution" like the fundamentalist Christians behave with regard to "the inevitable second coming". Like we are in the "end times" or something, and we can just wait it out because the whole thing is gonna come crashing down on its own any time now.
I just don't think its that simple. Not at all. I don't think things just happen, I think we have to cause them to happen. That for us to practically consider even the slightest possibility that we may live to witness anything close to the early stages of revolution, we need to at the very least have built up a respectable working class movement - and such a movement does not presently exist. Again, most of the population doesn't even seem to be aware that the revolutionary left exists. So, clearly, our perceptions of the state of the country's revolutionary left are on polar opposite sides of the spectrum.
And if any of what I'm saying is coming across as arrogant or condescending, I am not intending it that way at all, I am just honestly very surprised by your thoughts on this.
My question, then, is what makes you think that the revolutionary left, the working class, and the population at large are presently (or very soon to be) in any position to bring about revolution? What do you see the broader proletariat doing that convinces you that they're organized, with revolutionary-consciousness, preparing to usher in an imminent revolution?
I just don't see it. At all.
So you do not think there will be a revolution or that we must do and organize protests?
America is just the country that shows how all the written guarantees in the world for freedom are no protection against tyranny and oppression of the worst kind. There the politician has come to be looked upon as the very scum of society. - Peter Kropotkin
I think that the revolution is not something detached from human action, as is often the context in which its talked about. On the contrary, I think it is directly contingent on the success of the revolutionary left in disseminating its ideas, making itself known, raising consciousness of the failures (hidden in plain sight) of capitalism and consumerism among the broader proletariat, and becoming increasingly active within working class communities to help organize (and, if necessary, to help arm) the working class in general. It is not a given that a revolution is imminent, and it is certainly not a given, should a revolution occur, that it will be a leftist revolution. We are seeing large segments of the working class become interested in alternatives to the "status quo", and we are foolish if we fail to see that our alternative is not the only alternative being offered. Neo-Nazi and fascist organizations are gaining steam, the Libertarian Party ideology seems to be gaining steam - much of the working class seems to be looking to the far right for answers. There is a competition of ideas, and I don't want to say we are losing, but I will say that we are certainly not winning at the present time.
The revolution isn't like religion - it's not something you just have faith in - something that will come about from above and save the world; its something we have to work to bring about. All I am saying is we have a lot of work to do before we can realistically start talking about some imminent leftist revolution, because much of the American working class is outright hostile to the revolutionary left right now.
In my opinion, we need to dispose of the old imagery and idols, we need to reinvent the way we are perceived among the general proletariat, we need to consider that it is the 21st century and new tactics might be needed to spread the word and garner support. But I think this can only begin on a critical level once there has been a general acknowledgment on behalf of the revolutionary left itself that the present tactics are not working. And I worry that very few will be willing to swallow their pride and acknowledge this fact. But regardless, we at least need an open exchange of some new tactical ideas.
2 hours, 35 minutes and 19 seconds frooooom now!
This thread is amongst the pointless ever..No one can say when it will happen, but i can assure you capies, it will come, we just "hope" its soon enough!
I will leave it open for now, even i really think it offers nothing, and if it continue on a stupid "dialog" on how many years the revolution will come etc i will close it.
Fuserg9
ANARCHO
COMMUNISM
You're never over
The question isnt when it will happen but what are you doing to make it happen.
Police, taxes, the military, etc. are all obstacles standing in the way of this; what are we doing to overcome them?
Make friends with cops and convince them to retire, find loop-holes around taxes, teach people how to successfully avoid another tour of duty. Simple things like these (except for tax loop-holes, those are hard) can have great effect in getting things done.
I encourage everybody to plant seeds of rebellion in their neighborhoods and communities when and whereever possible.
Previously Green Apostle
[FONT=Arial]A coward hides behind freedom. A brave person stands in front of freedom and defends it for others. --Henry Rollins[/FONT]
Isn't that from Donnie Darko?2 hours, 35 minutes and 19 seconds frooooom now!
Fuserg9
America is just the country that shows how all the written guarantees in the world for freedom are no protection against tyranny and oppression of the worst kind. There the politician has come to be looked upon as the very scum of society. - Peter Kropotkin
What?
You're never over
As an employer of workers. As a former member of the IWW. As someone who is paying attention to such things.
Not in any forseeable future will any Revolution occur.
Honest answer.
Thats what we want you to think.
Ivan "Bonebreaker" Khutorskoy16.11.2009"We won't forget, we won't forgive"
I must admit you are doing an EXCELLENT job fooling me.
thats what the tzar said...I must admit you are doing an EXCELLENT job fooling me.
Ivan "Bonebreaker" Khutorskoy16.11.2009"We won't forget, we won't forgive"
I wish you the best--but we Barons/Capitalists/Commissar types always win in the end.
Feudalism lasted for a long time too Tom.
Ivan "Bonebreaker" Khutorskoy16.11.2009"We won't forget, we won't forgive"
It is not the job of either the revolutionary or the reactionary to tell you when the revolution is coming. Revolutions are an almost natural occurrence, and in some way shape or form, they will happen, even American presidents have made such remarks.
Rather, it is the goal and mission of both the revolutionary and the reactionary to determine the shape, character, and outcome that the revolution will take when it does happen. Game on.
