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Antifa England statement on European Elections
[FONT=Arial]For decades the middle-class Left have told us 'Vote Labouur Without Illusions' - or some other trite slogan. Under Thatcher, they told us we had to vote Labour 'To get Maggie out'. What did that get us? If anything it got us a government that was even further to the Right. Since 1997 New Labour have continued to shit on the poor and institute a vicious Police State. They have completely alienated working-class people, pushed the political agenda immeasurably to the Right, and fostered the rise of the fascist British National Party. Ordinary people are understandably VERY pissed-off with politicians. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]The BNP are hoping to capitalise on the current ecconomic crisis by scapegoating immigrants and asylum-seekers, and to capitalise on anger against Westminster by mobilising a so-called 'protest vote' - ie a vote for the fascist BNP. Meanwhile, the drips of 'Unite Against Fascism', 'Hope Not Hate, the 'Socialist Workers Party', and all the other middle-class idiots who told us to vote New Labour in the past, are telling us not to 'waste' our votes! They know that working-class communities are not going to vote Tory, do they really think that a vote for New Labour is a vote AGAINST fascism?! This is the party that has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Afghanistan for years now, and locking up and deporting refugees en masse.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]It is this sort of patronising, condescending stupidity that has led to the rise of the BNP in the first place. It is an insult to the intelligence of ordinary people. Antifa are not calling on people to vote Labour or 'Respect' to stop the BNP, we are calling on people to boycott the whole election charade, and to get out onto the streets and combat the rise of the BNP in the only way that matters - by Direct Action.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]We can understand the contempt people rightly have for the mainstream political parties. We can understand why white working-class communities feel abandoned and alienated. But a vote for the BNP is NOT a so-called 'protest vote', it is a vote for FASCISM. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]Don't believe any of their lies. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]Don't play the politicians' games.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]Don't vote.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]Organize![/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]Antifa England[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]No Pasaran![/FONT]
Don't vote isn't the best slogan, I don't think.At the moment people aren't organised as we'd wish. If people didn't vote, it'd simply lead to a far-right group getting majority votes or possibly worse, a complete break down of democracy.
A oibrithe agus a phobala cloíte na n-uile thír, cuirigí le chéile!
You know, im starting to get the impression that there is more of a movement against the BNP, than there actually is for the whole of the left. Fighting the BNP is good, but I do dream of a day when our own movements will be so popular that we will not need to even take notice.
Im just looking at all the leftlets that are coming through my door at the moment. All the leftwing-ish ones seem to focus more on the 'threat' of the BNP than their own actual parties. This really pisses me off, as it forces us to actually develop a sort of pedestal for them, rather than not even need to take notice. By the way the media is using the 'bnp threat' slogan, you would almost think that the BNP are actually about to take over parlament, and that we are all doomed.
Its like the labour party and many others are so arrogant that they believe they do not need to be focusing on improving their policies that have failed us for the last ten years, and that apethetic and alienated people are just going to get scared into voting for them.
I do understand the tactic of quashing the threat before it gets going, but in a strange way, all im seeing is more BNP legitimasy. I mean some of the shit that mr griffin comes out with? How on earth can anyone honestly vote for such a man. It perils me that the media are talking of them as being a big threat. If people of britain and other countries in Europe are honestly going to vote for people and parties like that, what does it say about our societies?
I can agree with Antifas advise of not to vote, as quite frankly, no other party deserves it. But, I agree with Batman in that it would probably backfire.
That's a fair enough analysis I think. Fascism breeds, historically when there is a resurgence in the socialist movement. But it also breeds when there is NONE. The fact that the BNP are in such a position highlights the failures of the left who don't seem to be doing the groundwork in working class communities that the BNP are.
A oibrithe agus a phobala cloíte na n-uile thír, cuirigí le chéile!
I'd be interested if they had any proof that the SWP was encouraging a Labour vote at this election.
Coalition of Resistance - Fight Back Against the Cuts!
"As for the lad "Sam_b", I've been reading this forum for a while and I don't think I've ever seen him contribute anything of any value. Most of the chap's posts seem to be confrontational and snarky digs at other posters. Thankfully, most other contributors do not seem to behave in this manner." - Some Guy
Why don't you just tell us what the SWP's position on this election is?
Devrim
Some wishy-washy stuff about 'voting left' (as usual might I add, like they urged everyone to vote New Labour in 1997).
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=17775
The typically populist SWP will use anything as yet another catalyst to further their own supposed "revolution". If that means flyposting crap all day and forming coalitions with nasty anti-revolutionary factions like Respect then "so be it".
TwatDon't vote isn't the best slogan, I don't think.
I dont vote, i never will, and no one should...
If voteing changed anything they'd abolish it...
Just... dont get me started
Don't be (needlessly) abusive, when I'm less drunk and when i can be arsed I'll explain to him why he is wrong (unless somebody beats me to it).
The guy is wrong but telling him why he is wrong will get us further than giving him abuse.
cheers
holden
Good man. How's not voting going to stop the BNP? Cuz at the moment, I don't see the working class being organised outside of representative democracy at the moment in England.
Do you think the BNP, as the biggest threat from the far-right should be given a clear run way in elections?
A oibrithe agus a phobala cloíte na n-uile thír, cuirigí le chéile!
Why call him a twat? He's expressing a valid opinion. If the choice for me was not voting, or voting for a left wing group which shares alot of views with me, such as No2EU, I'd definatly vote No2EU. I don't believe electoralism or reformism changes anything, but clearly it makes sense to keep the BNP out, and I'd like to see a solid left wing alternative filling the space currently dominated/being fought for by right wingers and fascists, just to see how it goes and to have my spirits raised by seeing people are beginning to make better decisions by voting for a left wing group.
Ivan "Bonebreaker" Khutorskoy16.11.2009"We won't forget, we won't forgive"
And that's a quote from another reformist, Ken Livingston.
A oibrithe agus a phobala cloíte na n-uile thír, cuirigí le chéile!
That is not really very anarchist of you, is it?
It is amazing to see how many anarchists forget about their principles when the nasty BNP comes along and scares them.Originally Posted by H-L-V-S
Basically what you are saying here is that the anarchist opposition to electoralism only applies when the far right doesn't field a 'nasty' candidate.
Devrim
It makes sense to throw some personal ground rules out of the window when the far right are such a big threat, don't get me wrong, I'm against ballot box politics, but they're not going to change the system just because of a few commies boycotting elections. We live in a parliamentary democracy, we may not like it, but we do, and until that changes I'm going to reluctantly use the vote I'm entitled to. Anyone who thinks that letting the BNP win just so that they can say "I didn't vote because I'm an anarchist so fuck you" is the right way to go about things is a complete joker.
As I understand the anarchist position it is not a moral one of personally rejecting electoralism, but one which recognises that elections can not be used to change society, and that all they offer to the working class is mystification.
We are not going to 'change the system just because of a few commies boycotting elections', but then neither are we going to 'change the system' by taking part in them either.
To advocate a vote is to play a part in that mystification, and is a rejection of the anarchist analysis.
That is my point here. It is amazing how people drop key parts of their political ideas when confronted with what is in my opinion a not 'such a big threat' from the far right.
At least the Antifa statement is consistent.
Devrim
you too huh?
I am not a full blown anarchist so I would vote for No2EU.
I know voting changes nothing, but reformist arguments have appeal, especially when I look at the BNP growing and setting up grassroots networks and the left just doesnt.
To be quite honest with you I would willingly drop all of my political ideas if it meant I could keep the fash out, but I guess it's a personal thing, and I personally believe that fighting Nazis on whatever front possible is far more important than conforming to some ideology. Above all else I am antifascist, so communism, capitalism, democracy, Karl bloody Marx, they are all secondary.
I don't think it is particular important. I don't think that they have much chance of ever winning a general election in the UK, and I think that the Labour party will continue to enact anti-working class, anti-immigrant and ethnic minorities, and imperialistic actions abroad that the fascists can only fantasise about.
We had the fascists in a coalition government in the parliament before last in Turkey. It didn't make much difference.
Devrim
Its not like he's standing himself as a candidate. If the BNP are trying to come across as respectable and getting power through the 'legitimate' existing system, then they need to be opposed through that same system, while at the same time using direct action against them.
Taking 5 minutes out of your life to vote in an election isn't exactly trading in his anarchist beliefs. Its not always bad to use the system for your own advantage...
It isn't about 'trading in beliefs'. It is about a world view. Anarchists believe that parliament can not change anything. It is quite an important part of their theory. Therefore, they either believe this, in which case they wouldn't vote, or they don't in which case it is logical to vote, but it would mean that they didn't hold to basic anarchist ideas.
Dervim
