View Poll Results: Do you subscribe to dialectical materialism?

Voters 87. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    20 22.99%
  • No

    34 39.08%
  • I don't even understand it

    33 37.93%

Thread: Out of sheer curiosity

Results 1 to 20 of 95

  1. #1
    Join Date Dec 2007
    Location where the sun don't shine
    Posts 4,762
    Organisation
    CWI Sympathizer
    Rep Power 0

    Default Out of sheer curiosity

    Do you subscribe to the whole 'dialectics' thing?

    Also it would be a hoot if you gave your ideology as well.

    cheers,

    Holden
  2. #2
    Join Date Dec 2007
    Location where the sun don't shine
    Posts 4,762
    Organisation
    CWI Sympathizer
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    I'll go first, im not a follower of this particular religion, partly because when actually thought about it doesn't make sense to a materialist like myself.
  3. #3
    Join Date Nov 2005
    Location UK
    Posts 16,778
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    You might want to change the wording to 'Do you accept dialectical materialism?' since your question is heavily biased.

    For example, comrades who accept dialectical materialism do not see it as mystical, so naturally they are going to tick 'No', or abstain.

    If you want an accurate response, you need to make your question neutral.
  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Rosa Lichtenstein For This Useful Post:


  5. #4
    Join Date Sep 2008
    Location KKKanada
    Posts 2,343
    Organisation
    My local socialist club
    Rep Power 24

    Default

    I don't really understand it and since you asked, I'm a Trot.
    Economic Left/Right: -9.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15
    "There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin

  6. #5
    Join Date Dec 2007
    Location where the sun don't shine
    Posts 4,762
    Organisation
    CWI Sympathizer
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    You might want to change the wording to 'Do you accept dialectical materialism?' since your question is heavily biased.

    For example, comrades who accept dialectical materialism do not see it as mystical, so naturally they are going to tick 'No', or abstain.

    If you want an accurate response, you need to make your question neutral.
    i was only kidding with the question, but if people are so humorless they need it changed then the mods can do their thang.
  7. #6
    Join Date Dec 2007
    Location where the sun don't shine
    Posts 4,762
    Organisation
    CWI Sympathizer
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    What the hell? Why are dialectics described as mystical? This poll is not impartial.
    i was only kidding with the question, but if people are so humorless they need it changed then the mods can do their thang.
  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Holden Caulfield For This Useful Post:


  9. #7
    fka AugustWest Forum Moderator
    Global Moderator
    Join Date Aug 2005
    Posts 6,021
    Organisation
    IWW
    Rep Power 99

    Default

    I voted I don't even understand it because the whole thing makes absolutely no sense. It's totally detached from material reality and makes attempting to understand the conditions of the working-class very difficult.

    - August
    If we have no business with the construction of the future or with organizing it for all time, there can still be no doubt about the task confronting us at present: the ruthless criticism of the existing order, ruthless in that it will shrink neither from its own discoveries, nor from conflict with the powers that be.
    - Karl Marx
  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Manoir de mes reves For This Useful Post:


  11. #8
    Join Date Sep 2008
    Location KKKanada
    Posts 2,343
    Organisation
    My local socialist club
    Rep Power 24

    Default

    i was only kidding with the question, but if people are so humorless they need it changed then the mods can do their thang.
    Apperently so. What happened to light-hearted humor?
    Economic Left/Right: -9.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15
    "There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin

  12. #9
    Join Date Mar 2008
    Location Earth
    Posts 194
    Rep Power 10

    Default

    Ive tried to understand them but i just cant get it

    Apperently so. What happened to light-hearted humor?
    the Stalinists purged it
    "Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce

    "The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple." -Oscar Wilde
  13. #10
    Join Date Nov 2005
    Location UK
    Posts 16,778
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    Zero King:

    The best way to actually understand dialectics is to read Marxist literature, preferably by Engels, Marx and Lenin. Through that you will understand dialectics and how they are used. To start off though, I would recommend the "ABC of dialectical materialism" by Leon Trotsky, found at marxists.org (for some reason it won't let me give the direct link).
    Unfortunately, as many threads here show, this theory makes no sense at all.

    I have listed these threads here:

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rosa.l/RevLeft.htm

    Alternatively, you can simply check this out:

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/nti-dialec...349/index.html
  14. #11
    Join Date Feb 2009
    Posts 157
    Rep Power 9

    Default

    i was only kidding with the question, but if people are so humorless they need it changed then the mods can do their thang.
    You should never make jokes in public. You never know who's listening! Be safe, be paranoid.
  15. #12
    Join Date Mar 2009
    Location Capitalist USA
    Posts 118
    Rep Power 9

    Default

    I'll go first, im not a follower of this particular religion, partly because when actually thought about it doesn't make sense to a materialist like myself.
    its not a religion its a philosophy
    Fight, Write, Promote and Die for the revolution

    When freedom depends on money then we are no longer free.
    Economic Left/Right: -9.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.10
  16. #13
    Join Date Sep 2008
    Location KKKanada
    Posts 2,343
    Organisation
    My local socialist club
    Rep Power 24

    Default

    its not a religion its a philosophy
    We've been over this. It was meant as a joke.
    Economic Left/Right: -9.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15
    "There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin

  17. #14
    Join Date Jan 2008
    Posts 1,632
    Rep Power 20

    Default

    I voted "I don't understand it", but I'm sure by now that I don't understand it because it doesn't make sense.

    So, nope.
  18. #15
    Join Date Dec 2005
    Posts 1,555
    Rep Power 16

    Default

    According to Wikipedia:

    1. Everything is transient and finite, existing in the medium of time (this idea is not accepted by all dialecticians).
    2. Everything is made out of opposing forces/opposing sides (contradictions).
    3. Gradual changes lead to turning points, where one force overcomes the other (quantitative change leads to qualitative change).
    4. Change moves in 3D spirals not 2D circles. (Sometimes referred to as "negation of the negation")

    Dialectical materialism with respect to Marx. Looking at everything with the perspective of class struggle is a way of looking at things. It doesn't necessarily mean everything that happens is based on class struggle. I accept or deny specific Marxist ideas without adopting this principle so I just don't see any reason to get into it.

    As for dialectic in general, I don't really know much about it. Based on the four points, I would say this:

    1. I would disagree.
    2. Seems true.
    3. Seems true.
    4. Change moves in 4D so I disagree there, too.
  19. #16
    Join Date Nov 2005
    Location UK
    Posts 16,778
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    Dooga, if this is so:

    Change moves in 4D so I disagree there, too.
    then change would in fact be impossible -- or rather, change would merely represent our subjective view of successive orthogonal hyperplane slices through a four-dimensional manifold, but it would not be 'objective'.

    In 4D all points in the manifold of space-time coexist, and since change requires the passage pf time, which does not really happen in 4D, there can be no change.

    This is one reason why soviet philosophers rejected Relativity as a physical theory, and regarded it as merely a mathematical model.
  20. #17
    Join Date Jul 2005
    Posts 6,291
    Rep Power 115

    Default

    i changed the title of the poll. i dont really care if they get offended or not but i think it would be more effective like this.

    i voted no. i mean i dont really understand it but not because of ignorance but because its nonsense and not even the master dialecticians understand themselves
    Formerly dada

    [URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic
  21. The Following User Says Thank You to black magick hustla For This Useful Post:


  22. #18
    Join Date Nov 2005
    Location UK
    Posts 16,778
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    Marmot, you seem to have mis-spelt 'subscribe'.
  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Rosa Lichtenstein For This Useful Post:


  24. #19
    Join Date Nov 2002
    Location somewhere else
    Posts 6,139
    Organisation
    Angry Anarchists Anonymous
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    According to Wikipedia:

    1. Everything is transient and finite, existing in the medium of time (this idea is not accepted by all dialecticians).
    2. Everything is made out of opposing forces/opposing sides (contradictions).
    3. Gradual changes lead to turning points, where one force overcomes the other (quantitative change leads to qualitative change).
    4. Change moves in 3D spirals not 2D circles. (Sometimes referred to as "negation of the negation")

    Dialectical materialism with respect to Marx. Looking at everything with the perspective of class struggle is a way of looking at things. It doesn't necessarily mean everything that happens is based on class struggle. I accept or deny specific Marxist ideas without adopting this principle so I just don't see any reason to get into it.

    As for dialectic in general, I don't really know much about it. Based on the four points, I would say this:

    1. I would disagree.
    2. Seems true.
    3. Seems true.
    4. Change moves in 4D so I disagree there, too.
    Based on the definition here, I would have to say that I don't support it, and I think it is a crock of shit. I used to (when I was young and stupid) think that everything had an opposite. Except, that well, not everything does.
    What is the opposite of "roller skates"? "Non-roller skates"? That doesn't make sense.

    As for change moving in spirals (rather than circles ), seems like a religious idea, don't Hindus think something like that? More to the point, to accept this idea, you would have to accept it without evidence. Meh, etc.
  25. #20
    Join Date Nov 2005
    Location UK
    Posts 16,778
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    AM:

    don't Hindus think something like that? More to the point, to accept this idea, you would have to accept it without evidence. Meh, etc.
    In fact, the majority of mystics do.

    You will find most of dialectics here, too:

    http://www.gnostic.org/kybalionhtm/kybalion.htm

    The Kybalion is the third most sacred book of Hermeticism.

    http://www.marxists.org/reference/su...s/en/magee.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism

Similar Threads

  1. A curiosity
    By MrDoom in forum Learning
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 19th August 2006, 20:06
  2. The sheer irony of you capi's - Does anyone else see it?
    By TheEndOfMan in forum Opposing Ideologies
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 2nd January 2003, 22:24

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Tags for this Thread