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Romanticizing USSR, Cuba, and China
This isnt trolling. I just feel that many people arent regarding how bad these countries were. Did you just forget the mass summary exceptions in cuba? or how in the USSR how they raided random peoples houses just to keep the public intimidated? How about during Mao's regime, how people were scared to dissent even in private, for fear of someone wire tapping their house?
No ideology can justify this.
Truly, these are horrors beyond words.
"We stand with great emotion before the millions who gave their lives for the world communist movement, the invincible revolutionaries of the heroic proletarian history, before the uprisings of working men and women and poor farmers – the mass creators of history.
Their example vindicates human existence."
- from 'Statement of the Central Committee of the KKE (On the 90th anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution in Russia 1917)'
What the fuck are you talking about? Where is your evidence to prove any of this?!
The first two claims you make sound like typical slander, the third is simply ludicrous.
the mass summary execution u speak of were against the people who raped tortured and generally fucked over the Cuban people during the Batista regime.and if you have any evidence of the other 2 I'd like to see it sparky.
"Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce
"The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple." -Oscar Wilde
Do you think that you changed the mind of anybody with those two sentence? Do you think people will go "ow shit i was wrong "?
I don't romanticize them nor support these countries. But there is the point that are not included in typical bourgeoisie news.
This is largely due to Fidel allowing a port on a special days where Cuban can leave their country. Now what would happen if this happen in the non-"C"ommunist country such as Mexico? You gonna have mass migration too.
I have seen innocent people being raided in America too, as police can get away from it.
This is wrong, there is knownigly that people were allowed to post criticize note on wall of communist's main building, the criticize note can also critize Mao and the miltant party without being targeted or fear for being dissent. This is especially important as the Kuomintang of China do not allowed this to happen or they will be shot. All thing went loose when Mao and the Gang of Four lose the power struggle during the cultural revolution. Anything related Deng and his association is not welcome here, however some do not like Mao here as I did.
Like American government have never done this before.
Especially for capitalism.
And I agreed with the above posts. This is crap and it does lacks evidence.
Not very convincing argument OP. In my reading, the only even mildly substantiated claim of a massacre in Cuba was the executions carried out after the revolutions of cronies of the Batista dictatorship.
Both were from personal accounts, 1 person i did know (from china) anouther account from a book (USSR).
You refute that dissent was not open in china, really the most obvious example is Tiananmen Square
If you want "proof" that can convince you, i cant give you any, but the fact the stalin sided with hitler and stalinism is built around strong state of authority, cult of personality, over a dictator should be pretty obvious
Most of us here don't like Stalin and most of us here agree that Stalin fucked the USSR up. big time. And we don't romanticize about theses country's any ways so this thread is basically pointless
edit: Stalin sided with Hitler because he needed to by time to rebuild his army and to gain a land barrier between Germany and Russia proper
Last edited by Vahanian; 13th March 2009 at 01:53. Reason: forgot something
"Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce
"The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple." -Oscar Wilde
Of course, it is not the proletariat state, Deng have taken controls and now you blame it on "Communism" instead of the leaders that betrayed the revolution. We do not support Chinese government, mind you, but we supports the early revolution which was genuine until the revisionist took it over such as Deng and his association. Blame it on American government too, they participated and helped Deng who created the today's china.
I will leave this to another comrade to "re-educate" you about Stalin and you could read "Another View of Stalin."
OK, I'll take your word for it.
What book is this supposed account from?
The incident at Tinanmen Square took place in 1989, 13 years following Mao's death, so you don't make a very convincing case.
Well isn't that a surprise.
Yeah, but you leave out the fact the the Soviet Union obliterated the Third Reich. You also offer a very shallow analysis of Stalin and the Soviet Union during his term as General Secretary.
Why are all of you trolls the same? Don't you have anything better to do with your time?
Mao had the "red guard" which was a system of re-education of teenagers to arrest their parents, it could be equaled to hitler youth, or his brown shirts. Anyway they reported people for dissent, who would be jailed or killed. both mao and the ussr had mass purges of people who would speak out, both killing millions.
Can some else point out to this person that we dont romantize about these countrys.srsly read around the forum and youll be able to see this
"Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce
"The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple." -Oscar Wilde
If you get this from bourgeoisie media, you still have not convinced us. Please give us proof that they arrested their parents. Comparison does not work.
Proof on purging please, if the dissenter are the majority, why the "socialist" government existed in the first place?
ill stop posting. this forum was stupid. Im really sorry, i'm half-asleep and sick.
No, your just a troll and you have no idea what your talking about.
The majority of the Chinese probally didn't have phones during Mao's era. That is a very strange claim to make up.
The spiritual atom bomb which the revolutionary people possess is a far more powerful and useful weapon than the physical atom bomb. - Lin Biao
Our code of morals is our revolution. What saves our revolution, what helps our revolution, what protects our revolution is right, is very right and very honourable and very noble and very beautiful, because our revolution means justice
- Dr. George Habash, founder of the PFLP.
Actually far from 'romanticizing' the USSR, Cuba and China I find that most *demonize* them, like you do, because its so much easier than taking an honest and balanced appraisal.
They didn't raid random people's houses to keep the public intimidated, people weren't afraid to dissent during Mao's government, those claims are out of thin air and they only make sense to you because you're not even thinking. I mean really, those are just absurdist, just surreal.
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Even if China, USSR, Cuba and such actually did those things, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did, communism isn't to blame. Whether those countries were communist or not is even a matter of debate.
But the most clever thing to do in order to get some credit in the working class is to keep low profile on those questions.
All that matter is that the average Joe is convinced that those countries were hellish, so the best way to convince them that communism is cool is not to say "No way sir, it's just that you're a brainwashed bastard", regardless of the fact that you are too young to have lived as a mature adult under a genuine "socialist" country.
Instead, a basic politician trick is to take the average joe's opinion where it doesn't really matter in practice, such as the history of the movement.
If I summarize my post: romanticizing those countries in front of potential communists makes you look like the lefty version of those conspiracist Nazi negationist when you guys should look like practical ideologist for the future.
Green Communist Anarchist
Occupation: Undermining Capitalism.
