why has overpopulation never been a left issue?

[Kenshiro]

i was going to post a YT video but i thought that would just engender reactionary replies.

it seems to me that the idea of overpopulation is slowly, slowly making its way into public awareness. some people think the biggest problem in the world today is overpopulation and the solution to all problems is to kill a large amount of people, as soon as possible. so what does the left think about the idea of overpopulation?

[butterfly]

I think it's issue that is easily solved through increased access to family planning.

[Socialist Scum]

The entire world could fit on the Swedish Island of Gotland, so for now I think its okay.

[JimmyJazz]

Because there is no problem of overpopulation, only a problem with a world economy that does not provide people with what they need. Scarcity is not the reason people don't have their basic needs met; capitalist hoarding is. From my profile:

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Global spending in 1998 ($U.S. Billions):
Cosmetics in the United States 8
Pet foods in Europe and the United States 17
Business entertainment in Japan 35
Alcoholic drinks in Europe 105
Military spending in the world 780

Estimated additional costs to achieve universal access to the following basic services in all developing countries ($U.S. Billions):
Basic education for all 6
Water and sanitation for all 9
Reproductive health for all women 12
Basic health and nutrition 13

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...acts-and-stats

"The United Nations Development Program (UNDP) reported in 1998 that the world's 225 richest people now have a combined wealth of $1 trillion. That's equal to the combined annual income of the world's 2.5 billion poorest people."

http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/inequal/gates99.htm

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And if by overpopulation you mean eventual overpopulation, then I guess the reason it's not a left issue is because the answer is so obvious that it's not really divisive: family planning. Any one with half a brain realizes this, whether they are on the right or left--a few "abstinence only" fundamentalist Christian morons in the Bush administration notwithstanding.

This book does a good job of tracing two different historical schools of thought on this issue: the Malthusian view, which denies a right to subsistence, and therefore focuses on (over)population; and socialism, which firmly defends a right to subsistence, and therefore focuses on wealth (mal)distribution. So if anything, I'd say that overpopulation is a right-wing obsession, not a left-wing concern.

[Black Sheep]

Great posts, comrades!
As far as the eventual overpopulation,i guess that by the time that occurs, technology will be advanced enough to enable colonization and planet terraforming.

[Kenshiro]

I think it's issue that is easily solved through increased access to family planning.

care to elaborate? anyone?

JimmyJazz, i dont care about poverty or equality. i care about the alarming rate of population growth: whether this is beneficial to mankind, and what effects it will have on the future of mankind and our planet.

www . ohiopeakoilaction.org/threats-overpopulation_clip_image002.jpg

should we increase or decrease our population?

[JimmyJazz]

They are two sides of the same issue, which was the point of my post.

If you were primarily concerned about the environmental effects of population growth, you didn't make that clear.

[Demogorgon]

The higher the level of Human Development in a country or region, the lower the Birth Rate. I think you can see where this is going.

Also only some parts of the world are over-populated. There are others that desperately need more people (Scotland for one), allow free movement of people and things will balance themselves out before long.

[Kenshiro]

The higher the level of Human Development in a country or region, the lower the Birth Rate. I think you can see where this is going.

yes thats a basic fact that everybody knows.

global population is increasing, is this good or bad? what do those of you who believe in communism believe a suitable population is? will population still be increasing under communism? why would we want to terraform and colonise other planets? are bigger cities better? why do we need so many cities? why do we need so many people?

i regard a lack of answer on the overpopulation isssue as reactionary and conservative.

[danyboy27]

i agree that overpopulation will eventually be a problem, that simple logic, a lot of people. and a lot less ressources.

there is no magic solution, but i seriously think its time to find other places to live.

[butterfly]

global population is increasing, is this good or bad?

In the short-term, as long as we only have the one planet the prospect of increasing population levels is a negative inevitability.

what do those of you who believe in communism believe a suitable population is?

A suitable population level is one which is sustainable, one would presume this would be the case in a communist society.

why would we want to terraform and colonise other planets?

Other planets hold materials in abundance that are scarce on earth, to give one pragmatic example.
How about expanding the human species into the distant realms of space?

are bigger cities better?

Better in what respect?

why do we need so many cities? why do we need so many people?

We don't, but unless you like the politics of Saloth Sar it's going to occur anyway.

[F9]

people who "support" that there is even a case of "overpopulation" now in earth, just check google earth, and you will "surprised" that not only there isnt any overpopulation, but there is place to fit at the very least 3x all the population of earth!!!overpopulation its just a "bed time story" for naives!!

Fuserg9

[ComradeOm]

it seems to me that the idea of overpopulation is slowly, slowly making its way into public awareness. some people think the biggest problem in the world today is overpopulation and the solution to all problems is to kill a large amount of people, as soon as possible

You never hear of this guy? Alarmists have been squealing about 'overpopulation' for over two centuries now, yet the imagined catastrophe remains as illusion as ever*. Not surprising given that the fools consistently fail to factor in the ever increasing forces of production. We humans are perfectly capable of devising new solutions to the 'problem' of overpopulation. See, for example, the so-called Green Revolution

*Given that this is OI, I feel obliged to point out that Malthus and his adherents, unlike Marx, did offer predictions of immediate and dire catastrophes

so what does the left think about the idea of overpopulation?

In short - its all bullshit. I'm happy to say that Marx & Engels ("the crudest, most barbarous theory that ever existed") were near-contemporary critics of Malthus and the tradition has since been maintained by Marxists

[Kenshiro]

people who "support" that there is even a case of "overpopulation" now in earth, just check google earth, and you will "surprised" that not only there isnt any overpopulation, but there is place to fit at the very least 3x all the population of earth!!!overpopulation its just a "bed time story" for naives!!

Fuserg9

that is the worst metaphor i have ever heard, work on your english plz.

what do we have to check, maintain and curb population growth or is it not an issue at all, something we should not even bother to consider? the graph that i linked alarms myself, does it not alarm communists?

will any communist consider overpopulation when the upcoming food shortages hit? or is it just all capitalism?

is there any global problem that could not be fixed right now by killing an immense number of people, by any means necessary, and reducing human population to a fraction of what it is right now, lets say 1%, or 6 million?

this is more of a philosophical rather than political question. myself, i have never cared for a world view focusing on equality and human rights, but rather the development of man and for man to be creative and happy and be harmonious with his environment.

taking another look at that graph and studying human population a bit more on wiki, it becomes clear to me every single problem humans have after the agricultural revolution has come from overpopulation. yes, overpopulation, even 1000's of years ago. it is called 'over'population when problems arise. for example, hierarchy is what communists think of as a problem. population growth = the development of hierarchy(civilization).

lets consider this far fetched scenario. this will very likely never happen, but this is a communist forum so i suspect members here will have good imaginations.

every single human on the planet is killed except for 1 million in a small city, say, in Europe. is there ANY possible negative outcome for our planet, following this catastrophe? apart from the lives of those lost?

[GPDP]

My primitivist senses are tingling!

[#FF0000]

that is the worst metaphor i have ever heard, work on your english plz.

Maybe English isn't his first language you ignorant fuck.

My actual response is very simple. Overpopulation is not a problem. The problem is unequal distribution and destructive, inefficient ways of producing things.

[ZeroNowhere]

every single human on the planet is killed except for 1 million in a small city, say, in Europe. is there ANY possible negative outcome for our planet, following this catastrophe? apart from the lives of those lost?

Malthus? Is that you?
Overpopulation isn't a left issue because it isn't an issue. Hell, birth rates are decreasing, and population would appear to be levelling off. Also, overpopulation implies a population not being sustainable, while we could feed at least 33 billion, according to estimates by the UNDP, and 500 billion or so with hydroponics, if we so wished. Hell, we certainly have far more than enough food for everybody, which makes all of your 'food shortages' doomsaying baseless silliness.

The problem is unequal distribution and destructive, inefficient ways of producing things.

As well a destructive ways of, well, destroying crops.

[The Idler]

Overpopulation has been a left issue, look at the one-child policy in China. Globally, there are enough resources for tens of billions of people so overpopulation isn't an issue. Global overpopulation is a science fiction dystopia (Logan's Run, Soylent Green) which Malthus used for his own conservative agenda.

[#FF0000]

Overpopulation has been a left issue, look at the one-child policy in China.

It's sort of a stretch to say that 1) overpopulation is a "left issue" just because of that and 2) that China has anything to do with socialism.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Colonization of the moon, and soon enough, Mars.

Along with introducing contraceptives to the third world, where that massive population boom is happening.