This Whole Che vs. Jesus Crap

[Fires of History]

In the "Why is Che important anyway" thread, a long and exhausting discussion of Jesus vs. Che began.
Basically about who was the better revolutionary.

I would just like to point something out:

Jesus, while radical for his day, actually did very little. His fans and followers have trumped up and made all his short days grand. What did Jesus THE MAN really do? I think people like to think of him as a revolutionary, but really anything revolutionary about Jesus is a result of his followers, especially Paul, and their perceptions of him. Without Paul, we would have never, ever, ever even heard about Jesus.

So Jesus blessed a few folks? So he died on a cross? This ALL IS ONLY REVOLUTIONARY IF YOU BUY THAT YOU ARE A SINNER AND GOD WANTS TO SEND YOU TO HELL!

Damn people, thought this would be obvious.

Whereas Che DID more in his life than most of us can even hope to accomplish. His contribution was HIS OWN, and it has lasted to this day in Cuba and elsewhere (we are here at Che Lives aren't we?)

CHE IS THE BETTER REVOLUTIONARY!!!

JESUS JUST HAD GOOD BIOGRAPHERS AND P.R. GUYS!!!

Power to the People,
Trance

[Sasafrás]

D Day, I don't like it much either. I'm no Jesus freak (I am Judeo-Christian and I believe in Christ) but Jesus Christ! Why would people compare Christ and Guevara? Two totally different beings with two totally different missions who lived in two totally different times. They both did some really great things and that's settled. Who cares? Why the hell do we compare people with others, anyway? Should it matter? We're all equal (or, at least, that's what I thought but I could be wrong).

Damn, I thought this would be obvious.

So, yeah, cut the Jesus Christ v. Ernesto Guevara crap. It's really pointless. And, while we're at it, let's cut the "Che v. Usama Bin Laden" mierda too. This isn't a boxing match and Che is no terrorist nor a Jewish carpenter/Saviour/Son of God/Prophet.

..Peace & Love..



I could be at school right now, but praise Jah for those two inches of snow he graciously dropped on Memphis last night.

[CPK]

i am an athiest.
(i am going to hell...)
so i don't beleive in anything religious stuff.
but i do respect religions.
you can't compare che and jesus.
first all are all the facts about jesus real? more less is jesus even 'real'.
after a very long period of time things could have been 'added' or 'removed'.
but i may be wrong.

i am sure che would't like to be compared to somebody.

[GuerillaTactics]

seriously though........why would you compare che with jesus??? I mean......admiring che......and worshiping him are two different things(even though i do not think people should worship any man ....including jesus) ........... don't get me wrong....... I have the greatest admiration for che and what he stood for and represents..........but Im not going to worship the guy

[Sasafrás]

Yes, really GuerillaTactics, I don't worship Che either and I don't believe we should..
And, please everyone, CUT OUT the Che v. Napoleon thing too!

AAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!

[Fires of History]

D Day, La Rainbeaux, Others,

I appreciate that you might not 'like the way I sound'-oh by the way, why?

My post is an expression of frustration I have had both on the net and in the 'real world' over people taking cheap shots at Che.

Oh, Che wasn't a real revolutionary, and so on.

Oh, Che wasn't this or that, I even had one guy at my school assert that Che didn't even author his own writings or speeches.

Anyway, yes, the post is somewhat...energetic? The other thread got very much on the topic of Jesus; long story, all too much, and I had to say that.

Che changed it all for me, and to the best of my ability, I will defend who and what he was. The 'Jesus Freak' in the other tread had me boiling more than thinking I guess; so I posted.

But, still, what I said still stands for me.

Although I agree that comparing Che to every person in history can get old real fast.

Power to the People,
Trance

[I Bow 4 Che]

Quote: from CPK on 3:56 pm on Feb. 6, 2002
i am an athiest.
(i am going to hell...)

with all do respect , I thought atheists didn't believe in heaven or Hell? Im atheist and i dont really believe in heaven or hell but I do respect others religons just like you. Im not bashing you mayby you were being sarcastic or something but yeah, it just hit me so I had to reply-QUACK

[Sasafrás]

Quote: from Fires of History on 4:35 pm on Feb. 6, 2002
The 'Jesus Freak' in the other tread had me boiling more than thinking I guess; so I posted.

What Jesus Freak? What do you mean by that statement?

And, I Bow 4 Che, I respect you a lot since you're so young. But, just to tell ya, it's "with all due respect"

[I Bow 4 Che]

sorry excuse my stupid spelling mistakes....I feel so evil
Eye Wood Sae Thuat I downt spell NEthing rong but then i wood b the hoogist lierer in the worlds

[Sasafrás]

That's cute. I didn't mean any harm by my correcting you or by the "you're so young" thing at all, if you saw it that way. Believe me, I make manee speeling and gramatiical erorrs mesellf.

[CheGuevara]

So could someone remind me what Jesus did in reality? Not any of that "Jesus died on the cross for our sins" bullshit. He supposedly fed some people with some fish or whatever. Wow. I guess we should worship every UN Food Program worker. I'm not in favor or worshipping Che or the comparison thing, but when it comes right down to it, Jesus certainly didn't do very much that you can prove.

[Fires of History]

CheGuevara,

Ahh, you got it!!

That's all I was saying, was refuting that Jesus actually DID anything.

Power to the People,
Trance

[CPK]

[quote]Quote: from I Bow 4 Che on 11:44 pm on Feb. 6, 2002

Quote: from CPK on 3:56 pm on Feb. 6, 2002
i am an athiest.
(i am going to hell...)

you don't seem to understand...
what i mean is what christian people told me.
if you don't see the light you are going to hell.
blah blah blah.

[Sasafrás]

Well, I'm certainly not an atheist and I (though, true, there really is no true reliable source) believe in all the things that Christ [supposedly] did but I'm also definitely not obsessive about it. In fact, I respect all people's beliefs. My "cleric" (who's pretty much a rebel in certain ways) says that many atheists will be less likely to face the proverbial "eternal damnation" than many Christians & Jews because the atheists know what they believe (or, don't believe) while many Jews & Christians are don't truly follow the God that they claim to and don't "walk in complete obedience" yet still prance around acting as if they're perfect. That's my problem with many of the Christians I encounter but I still respect the fact that they are Christian. Even though I believe in God (and Jesus Christ), I still have assholes in my face trying to convert me and make me go to church on Sundays, eat pork & shrimp, stop celebrating Passover and do the opposite of everything else that I do now. That's frustrating for me, so I'm sure that it's even more frustrating for atheists as the excessively compulsive Christians push harder and demonstrate much more stupidity than they do in my face. That's why I enjoy atheists. It gives me a break from people who shove loads of annoying shit in my face. I mean, can't people just respect me as I respect them?

And, not to be offensive at all, if the supposed activities of Christ can't be proven, how can anything? Everything we know is based on written (and in some cases, taped) accounts. How do we know if this "life" is even real? Do we really exist? Just a thought (though it really is ridiculous) but come on, who cares if someone or thing exists in reality? What you believe is what you believe and what I, what I; Many of us could be believing in something that's not real. I've never actually seen an atom or a cell or a dust mite, so how do I know if they're real or if they're just made up? I just know what I've learned. People say that God has spoken to them but can we really descredit them simply because we don't believe in God or because God has not ever spoken to us?

Everything's a big mystery. Life is an enigma. I'm not trying to convince the whole world to be like me. I admire the world because it is full of people who are not like me.

What was my point? I don't know. Maybe I had some divine inspiration or maybe there's no such thing. All I'm saying is, though you guys, CPK, CheGuevara, Fires of History, GuerillaTactics have different ideas than I have about certain things, I still respect ya'll because we're all just humans trying to make it in this hideous and imperfect world. I love you guys..

Peace & Love!





[b]So now, let us stop with the whole Che v. Jesus crap.. Thank you.

[Cobber]

Amen

[Supermodel]

There's a very simple answer to this question: Jesus rose from the dead, proving for his followers his deity.

If you don't believe in all that, then the argument of Che versus Jesus is moot.

If you are a Christian, it's obvious that Che never claimed to be the son of God and no-one, sad to say, has proof that he rose from the dead.

Now you don;t have to be a Jesus-freak to be a profound Christian. And, you don't have to be a Che freak to admire the heck out of the man.

[CheGuevara]

Not that I believe in any of that nonsense, but regardless, does rising from the dead make one a great revolutionary?

[Supermodel]

In response to the question of why Jesus was a great revolutionary:

Jesus surrounded himself with the outcasts of society. The lepers, prostitutes, cripples, and tax collectors. He also revered little children. At the time of Christ, the Jewish faith and the Roman religions were all about moving higher up the social heirarchy and closer to God.

It is by no means Jesus' actions, but His teachings, that make him a revolutionary. Through words, he preached pacifism and acceptance of all humanity. He decried sin against God and fellow man.

There is no doubt that Jesus was the great, first true socialist. How can you deny that he was a revolutionary? His works on earth sparked a movement that hsa reached every continent, although sometimes by violence.

Try this link: the Sermon on the Mount:

http://www.bartleby.com/108/40/5.html

[CheGuevara]

Fascism has reached every continent as well.