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Originally posted by Grandma Sweater+August 21, 2007 03:21 pm--> (Grandma Sweater @ August 21, 2007 03:21 pm)
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@August 18, 2007 06:14 pm
Facism and organized crime have always gone hand-in-hand.
An absurd and unfounded statement. Especially when one considers that Mussolini rid Calabria and Sicily of the Mafia during the 20's. Organised crime represents the opposite of Fascism: freelance anti-state profiteers.
Organized Crime is just that. Organized...Crime. Let's cover the basis of these words to work out what Organized Crime is. Organized, in the words of my dear friend Wiktionary, is "arranged in working order" and crime is "an act comitted in violation of law". Therefore, Organized Crime would be defined as "An act comitted in violation of law in an Organized manner."
This in no way pertains to Anti-Statism, though it could. Fascists and Totalitarians have, since their beginning, have used state-sponsered Organized Crime such as the use of Secret Police (an organized force, though unlawful, therefore an Organized Crime) to enforce laws.
Fascism has always been associated with behind-the-scenes tampering and bullshit law enforcement. I don't see how what Guerilla E said was "absurd and unfounded". [/b]
Firstly, considering the entire quotation I drew that selected phrase from, it makes much more sense to identify organised crime with mafia and other related groups. Also, your use of the term organised crime is far from the colloquial and accepted term that was being referred to by both myself and the original poster. Your argument is entirely semantic, and has nothing to do with the disagreement had. Go ahead and dissect phrases to create new meanings, it just makes you look unprofessional.
The full quotation was this:
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These people are NOT like the skinheads, they roll around in mercedes and run big business, and have connections with the mafia. Facism and organized crime have always gone hand-in-hand.
Completely in reference to, not your interpretation of, but the definition of organised crime - very much put forth because the term mafia was used!.
Thus defined here, using the very same source:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/organized_crime (note what is immediately listed beneath)
Secondly, your logic as to Secret Police and Organised Crime is severely flawed, for if a government body is enforcing a set of laws, no matter what their methods, it is not unlawful. I am not saying that a policing wing of the government is infallible, but a secret police force is a government body, enforcing laws as instated by the government, on terms set out by the government: there is nothing illegal about it, therefore it is not crime. When it comes to secret police, you seem to imply that a governments practice of such is exclusive to Fascism. Even modern socio-democracies use secret police forces. Secret police forces are not always as they are portrayed.
To further this, I think it is fair not to say that Fascism and Organised Crime go hand-in-hand, but rather it was the "allied" forces in the second world war that made use of Organised Crime connections. For instance, the American's use of the Sicilian Mafia in New York to assist with their invasion of Sicily, and the Soviet use of both Ukrainian Nationalist groups and the Russian Mafia. These are prominent examples, but the list is endless; most groups of the sort were suppressed in National Socialist Germany and Fascist Italy.