What is our position on the ANITFA movement?

it looks like his speech was largely disrupted

also more fash shooting at people / trying to kill people

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...inesville.html

Yes such a victory that was..... its too bad they have the internet in the south now and can organize and say whatever they want for as long as they want online. They can't get on the news though.

This is probably the best thing that these protesters can do, stand in the way, and serve as a target for the nazis, because they were looking for trouble. The guy on left in that photo is definitely a gangster from the aryan brotherhood, he probably unironically sees this as cleaning his life up and getting involved in politics. The guy on the right looks like he shouldve been in a mental asylum a long time go.

If they didn't attack those protestors they would've attacked somebody else, beaten up some black kids or torched a mosque or a synagogue, maybe kill a transsexual. There's no equivalent on the opposite side nobody from antifa is going around beating up white kids and torching churches. When antifa talks about violence they talk about killing richard spencer. which i still dont understand why nobody has done yet.

Maybe because like Trump they understand its not about him, that its a systemic problem, and that killing this guy won't solve anything. I think alot of people fall for his innocent rhetoric. Spencer actually claims to love jews and the state of israel despite his fans plotting to bomb a synagogue and lynch a few jews later that night. When people hear that they instinctively back off, he sounds stupid, he sounds confused, his rhetoric makes no sense whatsoever.

Listening to people in that auditorium who (largely students under 25 years old) try and debate him like he's one of their socially maligned classmates, and like edward norton in american history X he just needs to learn a few life lessons and he'll convert and leave his little cult. It shows how futile these meetings really are. If they're not going to even talk about jews in any kind of negative way, what the hell kind of nazi meeting is it really going to be? So who is it for? They've adopted so much left wing rhetoric i honestly think at this point you could rewrite a W.E.B dubois speech about abolitionism replace every reference to black people with white people, change a few antiquated words and deliver it at one of their meetings to cheers and applause.

Either way this was not lead by antifa or any socialist organization these were democrats. There is no reason why we cannot work within the democratic party they have no ideals written in stone, or even paper. There is no reason why we cannot work within the republican party either for that matter. The republican party used to be a major trotskyist stronghold, Lincoln was republican, its a party born to fight the civil war on behalf of the north. How right wing ideologues stole the party away from the left is another matter.

Do I actually have to point out everything tat wrong with your post, or will you admit that you don't belong on a revolutionary forum?

they want to play politics though which is why it's not limited to online , if i even understand what you meant

ugh


the equivalent so far has been some pretty heavy community direct action but tbh i have no idea what you're talking about

:confused:

what/whose meeting are you talking about



:confused:

I pointed it out because it was amusing how the example you were using to prove your point that no event had ever been shut down was an event that had been shut down.

https://itsgoingdown.org/gainesville...right-failure/

nah

lol says the asshole who does nothing but post sarcastic one line posts. seriously youve been crying for months about chris now your jumping on me with this shit? fuck off

what do you mean by play politics?

its true



unless your saying "heavy community direct action" is the equivalent of hate crimes then you might not understand.




whoops i forgot the link i posted to bixx was live feed and not a recording. Here's the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZK_999sTgU


what is your obsession with whether or not a meeting has been shutdown or not? Yes I am aware some of these rallies (or meetings whatever were calling them stunts is probably a better word them) have literally been cancelled because of these protests. I am not denying reality I am saying this is not the 1930's these meetings are not important, if they were they wouldn't advertise them. Pointing out "who's the fascist" like some never ending witch hunt is pointless. This is not europe you cannot be arrested for being nazi. These protests are as liberal as they come, they are against one man donald fucking trump. If hillary was elected they wouldn't be protesting, if fucking ted cruz was president these protests wouldn't exist. How can we be for these protests but then say "dont support the democrats, don't vote for hillary"? Aren't you happy Trump is president? where did all the accelerationist talk go? where did all the "well who gives a fuck if hillary or trump wins" bullshit? now were fucking marching? to what? impeach donald trump? wouldn't it have been easier to support hillary?

totes mcgoats

Willow,

How do you think people become revolutionaries from being liberals or apolitical?

Do you think anything should be done against the far-right reboot attempts? If so, if you do not think opposing the directly is the right tactic, how do you think they should be stopped or opposed?

I post sarcastic one line posts, yet somehow my positions taken are actual revolutionary positions rather than those I'd expect from.a fascist troll or a liberal. Also, fyi, brining up ckaihatsu is a infractable offense in my experience.

I do think disruption of their online communities would be an interesting project even if it's one I wouldn't be very helpful with.
Objectively false.

LOL, so you're siding with the fash.
So your statement is a little ambiguous- anti fascists were looking for trouble or the fascists were? And how does either one make it a good thing (in your opinion) that the anti fascists were shot at? These are the words of some soft POS who has never hit the streets, who likes to hold onto their little identities without having any content whatsoever. You allow your positions as a leftist to be manipulated to such a degree in this way that you're supportive of fascists shooting at anti-fascists. Go live in the real world for a minute before talking out your ass. Again, you don't belong on this board.

I don't really understand what the point of this is.

There's no evidence to support these claims. Also, I will say your usage of the word "transsexual" is at best disconcerting.

Why does antifa need to match the fascists? This is an entirely assymetric conflict, we don't use the same tactics to achieve non-comparable goals. Btw, you're taking intentionally nebulous positions so you can deny what you've said previously by claiming it's not what you meant- I just want you to know, there is no positive way your posts can be interpreted, every single one is liberal at best and reactionary at worst- that is, if they're comprehensible.

I don't understand you hypermacho infatuation with bringing up killing folks but then flipping around and being like "IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING"

His rhetoric isn't about making sense, even the liberal media has figured that shit out. Jesus, you let CNN beat you to this conclusion?

Show me all this left wing rhetoric.

When?

So you're a reformist?

Or rather, would you like to show me a single insurrectionary situation that has arisen from within the state?

You're not a revolutionary, you're either a dumbass liberal reformist or a fascist troll. To reiterate (again), you don't belong on this board.

someone denying that the events (shut downs etc..) have happened is essentially conspiracy theories and obsession, most of what you've posted in this thread either makes no sense or is incorrect


you claimed multiple times that nothing had been shut down, even some of the private fash meetings have been discovered and disrupted, they're dropping a lot of time and energy into reaching out at universities and doing other organizing, which has been shut down



fash are being identified and pressured/ejected from jobs/careers, uni, cities, etc.. it's also so others know that they're a fascist



I think it's fairly significant that there are struggles coming together at certain times. The reintroduction of direct action by communists and anarchists with formerly unassociated others, sometimes just others, finding or adopting tactics on the fly, because there is an understanding being developed through experiences that you can't rely on the state to protect you, you have to rely on yourself and others for protection against it. Riots becoming as common as protests, people fighting back against the police as common as anti police chants, which are as common as peace signs once were. The distrust and resentment is no longer just encompassing the events of a single election but of elections, of presidents, ecology, economics, of the present and future. It's worth noting that hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars even, worth of security can no longer openly guarantee an impenetrable dystopia of defense. There are things just now beginning to happen for real, which have been on the edge of people's suspicion for some time, the contradiction between the current form of life and ecological collapse is one imo





flip

what positions???? i asked you to take a position on antifa youve done nothing but criticize my position. Bringing up ckaihatsu is not infractable, constantly being a fucking asshole like you is

disrupt but dont outlaw? whats your opinion on the first amendment?




no you are... fucking child
oh so your saying its better that the fascists... i can't even mock this childish bullshit try not putting words in peoples mouth so you can attack a weak strawman. do you really think i beleive that or are you just an asshole?


since when does a lack of understanding prevent you from being an asshole?
there is no evidence to support the nazi would've attacked somebody after the rally are you high?... or wait for it .... are you just a stupid asshole?


again you didn't understand what I wrote and your attacking a straw man, more assholehishness you could build a house with all this straw

more shit covered straw from the asshole
then why do you care?


ummmm stuff like reverse racism, white genocide turning arguments about black people and replacing them with white people like i said... oh wait this isn't a serious question its another mind trick your playing? your trying to get me to quote him and then you can jump and down scream that I called Richard spencer a leftist right? fuck you asshole


when do you think? you fucking stupid asshole



Why? then what would you even write about? Would you try to get another administrator banned? you hate this board so fucking much then leave it, honestly they shouldve banned you. what the fuck do you even do here but attack other leftists?

9/11 was an inside job
Ive also repeated multiple times at this point that I know theyve stopped a couple events, what im saying is, that it doesn't matter the organizations themselves were not shutdown, this is not the WTO people are not flying in private jets from around the world to carve it up for themselves a little bit further, this was not even a donald trump election rally. Look at the video its like 20 guys, Im not worried about 20 guys chatting for a couple hours. youtube is a bigger platform than the university of florida at Gainseville public hall... shutting down stormfront was a bigger victory
And this is because they were in broad daylight. if they didn't have the rally or it had been "shutdown" they would all still have jobs




dont get me wrong i love antifa Im always the first to defend them and all the others protesting, but im just apathetic because ive said all this before, during OWS (which i actually traveled to attend in nyc), and BLM. Now I'm seeing the same story play out. OWS was more of a hippy happening than anything else, with BLM we got things like the civil rights branch at the justice department, body cameras, we got somebody to finally start counting the amount of people killed by police. We made it clear that cops can be video taped no matter how times they tell people its illegal. There was a long list but something got accomplished, not much but something. But again i was saying these are liberals alot of them are devout christians, alot of them hate communists, we need a strictly communist organization and not try and take credit for BLM. I'm saying the same thing now, ANtifa sort of became a white mans BLM its hard for non black people to really form and join an activist group about black people nationwide, especially since there's not alot of black people in america and they're mostly in the cities. if you live in a small town what are you supposed to do?
why is it so impossible?

I don't know

I dont think my opinion really matters, im just one person, im a felon so even my vote doesn't matter

kay



what you posted was that organizing events hadn't been shut down, and you used an example of an event that had been shut down, it's also been more than a couple

you don't have to be optimistic about anything, i'm certainly not, but you should get the facts correct at least




Would you feel safe living in a city knowing that 20 people, at least, were openly organizing for violence against you, others. friends, family? How do you feel about the police?


they went from hundreds/thousands marching with torches to 10-20 being protected by police, nazis getting punched everywhere



both happened actually, the rallies were disrupted or shut down and their photos/video taken, identified, and ejected from life



It depends on where you were during ows. The west coast had some moments, and I think some of the solidarity stuff was cool like simultaneous evictions being resisted and stuff. I don't see antifa actions as being similar in character to ows though.





Estimates have existed before and why does a near exact number matter in your opinion? Was it worth the fight, why? The issue was never that police would say, hey that's illegal, and then people would say okay and leave. The issue was being arrested for interference and other charges, confiscation of the the entire recording device (phone) and video, assault by the police, or some combination of those things, all of which still takes place as it did before. Cops kill people and get a vacation, and walk, and return to work. There was an NLG observer amidst a sea of NLG observers who was for all intents and purposes, assaulted, by the police for recording the police assaulting random people on a sidewalk during a demo recently. Fwiw journalists in St louis were kettled and arrested, held on the ground and pepper sprayed, with credentials. Cops break the law all the time, they don't give a fuck.




below you're talking about a strictly communist organization so i'd question whether or not that 'something' could be considered communist activity, and since the answer is clearly no imo, are you trying to just expand communism to accept liberal politics



i'm struggling to understand what you mean in your post

there have been a lot of liberals at events that have been shut down, a lot probably have shit politics who i would hate, some who engaged in direct actions that i don't think are very successful or useful but i think it's cool that they tried, but that doesn't dismiss the other rather large blocs that formed to not sit behind barricades and instead did direct action and shut down events that wouldn't be shut down otherwise. This is including liberals and others who threw down against the police and conspired to spread collective disorder against governance, during the election, and from the announcement of trump's presidency through the disruption of a nationwide fascist political campaign.


Because of an inherent limit of power, individually and collectively within those channels you are talking about working in. Because the interest and goals are diametrically opposed to communism and the state uses processes of mediation that are peaceful to it as a mechanism of control and extension of governance.

They're disorganized troublemakers and a bad joke.

IMHO. :)

So, when your whole argument is based around calling someone a "stupid fucking asshole", it sounds an awful lot like you're admitting you can't respond to any of their points. You care to actually elaborate a position that I can engage with rather than just losing your mind that someone on here disagrees with you?

BIXX I have not called you an asshole or anything of the sort. All the same I would like to see a direct statement on antifa from you, since you do seem to be avoiding it.

You have not called me an asshole or anything I don't think, I was commenting on willowtooth's... 'argument'?

As far as a direct statement on antifa there are some people and things I like and some people and things I don't like. It's kinda like asking what my opinion on weather is- there are lots of different types of weather and therefore I can't give a conclusive all encompassing statement about antifa. What I can say is that fascist organizing in my area and in various other areas of the country has been slowed or even reversed- and I attribute it to antifa, yes.

BIXX, what specific Antifa tactics made it successful, or is it the fact that people were principled and confronting the far right?

I feel that antifascist organising from communities should be shown our solidarity in all its forms, even if utilising tactics we disagree with or see as creating complications. An aspect of solidarity isn't just patting ourselves on the back and proclaiming to the high heavens its success but at the root of it offering comradely advice and suggestions. At the risk of sounding patronising, as I'm sure all who participate in the thread understand already, fascism is fluid ideology that basks in its own contradictions but I recommend to anyone to read Umberto Eco's Ur Fascism to gain a good grip on its origins and the similarities in fascist movements that remain constant to this day. Ultimately, I think it could be said that fascism is a movement that emerges from capitalism and in a sense acts as an extension of all the aspects of capitalism contemporary liberals would rather ignore.

In this manner, antifascist organising, whether it takes on an openly anticapitalist character or not, is a rejection of the idea that the threats of violence in our communities will go away if only we wait for the sanctioned violence of the state to step in, it's a rejection of the idea that workers have no avenues to defend themselves from racism, sexism and homophobia except those legal avenues provided by the capitalist state which itself created the conditions fascism emerges from.

I would say some of both. The continued tenacity of confronting the far right is a product of the principle, which IMO has been a huge driving factor for success. On the other hand, I think the tactic of forcefully engaging fascists is incredibly important because it forces fascists into a more difficult organizing situation. The combination of the two is where it all comes together though.

I am willing to say that there is more that can be done to make the current antifa movement stronger (and I'm speaking from the experience of my location, I don't know necessarily the community details of other places where clashes with fascists have taken place, like Berkeley and Charlottesville) would be to have antifascist action flow into communizing and commune building of community strengthening. Partially because there ends up being the issue of a "now what" after the fascists have been repelled, so having a healthy community where various projects are taking place aside from antifascist organizing (social centers, other political fights, etc...) gives you an immediate flow from antifascist action into things like Food not Bombs (if you're into that sort of thing) or protecting an anarchist social center from eviction (again, if you're into that sort of thing). The further integration of communist politics into antifascist action marks a viable way for people to experience communist action and also for us to begin to organize as a serious opposition to capital, whether by our newfound way of life (those we build in the process of communist action which makes that form of life inherently anticapitalist) or through our continued disruption of capital, but probably both.

I know this post is a bit rambling so sorry if it doesn't make much sense, happy to clarify anything if you've got any more questions.