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I felt the same way because I can well imagine it happen to "us" in the far-left if we ever get too out of line for the establishment. no-one would care. they'd just laugh and keep punching us when we're down. they'd hate us out of the same belief we are devils when we are complete strangers to them.
The actions of the state in this regard tend to set the status-quo 'example' for people to adopt and follow, unfortunately -- it's common to run-into the liberal-type mindset that far-left and far-right are *equivalent*, because both ends are willing to use extra-state violence, and because of historical Stalinism and Nazism, respectively.
So this centrist position is a *privileged* one, because the supporters of the state then get to play 'referee' between the two sides, as though the opposing sides are just brand-like 'flavors', or sports teams, each vying in similar, generic ways for their own victory over the other -- nothing is usually covered, outside of the recent Charlottesville incident, in the corporate press, as to deeper motivations or interests, or why the two sides are *not* 'equivalent' politically.
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Its a form of mob justice with people taking revenge on other people because of a label. I wouldn't call it the "people expressing themselves". the people have expressed themselves with bare faced hypocrisy and cowardice by ignoring the problem for years but now they suddenly "care" because they feel threatened by it. a mob remains a mob even if we may agree with what makes it angry. they are animated by passions that they have no self-control over and will throw themselves into destructiveness with unthinking fanaticism as they take out their repressed sadistic longings on other people. suddenly the oppressed get to feel like they matter.
Agreed -- I'm reminded of Wilde here:
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The emotions of man are stirred more quickly than man’s intelligence; and, as I pointed out some time ago in an article on the function of criticism, it is much more easy to have sympathy with suffering than it is to have sympathy with thought. Accordingly, with admirable, though misdirected intentions, they very seriously and very sentimentally set themselves to the task of remedying the evils that they see. But their remedies do not cure the disease: they merely prolong it. Indeed, their remedies are part of the disease.
As long as polarized political newbies are willing to 'take out their repressed sadistic longings' on the *far-right*, I'd have no problems with this kind of 'mob passion', because at least they're picking the correct target. Maybe the oppressed would then learn from their experiences more of the underlying social reasons for why marginalizing the far-right (and the bourgeoisie) is a *good* thing.
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unfortunately, those same nazis would use mobs against jews, gays and blacks when they think they have the upper hand and can get away with it. there are probably some nazis out there trying to do what they think is right and will brave the circumstances, but they are wrong and are on the wrong side. it is a wasted effort and virtues for a bad cause.
Yes.
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the more enlightened of them may say the same of us.
This statement is puzzling since you're empathizing with far-right politics.
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I know that isn't considered a "good" thing from the standpoint of the class struggle because your supposed to be partisan and always stand up for the "winning side" and the "just cause", but as a set of emotions we have to grapple with- it is a very communist thing to do. it is not something to be ashamed of. we are for all humanity, even our enemies, most of whom were abused and lied to in order to turn them into they monsters they are. we have to fight them but we must chose our methods carefully based on reason, not just rage.
Yeah, the reason why we're revolutionaries (in this polarized context) is because the far-right has no qualms with victimizing social minorities at any chance they get -- they should be made to feel some of that pain that they're so willing to dish out onto others, in hopes that they'll get the message that such arbitrary violent behavior is *not* socially acceptable.
Let's call it 'political
operant conditioning'.
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hatred is often a sign of our own emotional poverty or worse, a sense of fear and inferiority. I think it is better to be humbled by the power of the mob because at least then you understand what "revolution" consists of. it has a profound ugliness to it and it means we start to grapple with the nature of the social forces that are unleashed in the class struggle beyond the protection of "bourgeois" law.
I don't see why you would think of class-struggle revolution as being 'ugly' -- as long as there's principles and coordination it's actually *uplifting*, because it *can't* be a 'mob' when people are struggling to empower the working class, towards workers power and the overthrow of bourgeois repression.
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to be truly moral is to do what is right regardless of whether there is punishment. mobs typically are opportunistic and are less "moral" because they do what they think they can get away with. beyond that I don't know what to say but it is important to be honest with yourself and not hide from what makes us uncomfortable simply because it is expedient. the sort of heroic ideal communism can represent demands self-mastery and discipline, and that cannot be found in a mob even if we think their cause is a just one.
Exactly -- this is more to-the-point, I'd say.
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It makes sense to be uneasy about engaging in tactics which have been and will be used against the radical left. Being "outed" to an employer or potential employers as a communist wouldn't go over well, either, and relying on those with power to deny fascists an ability to gather and agitate can easily backfire.
Or, as with anti-fascist actions in general, it can put those with power (employers, Trump, etc.) *on-the-spot*, forcing them to deal with the larger political environment, which happens to include fascist-minded repression against social minorities, and those on the far-left who can physically counter fascist sentiments.
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It's a messy situation when you have those in power condemning violence "on all sides," or calling for "non-violent resistance," and both fascists and socialists predictably rejecting "peaceful coexistence." Even as the state says this, it shows inaction toward Nazi violence while forming a protective wall around vastly-outnumbered fascists. While exposing a fundamental reality of the bourgeois state, this also shows the fierceness of the struggle anti-fascists have ahead of them.
Yup.
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P.S., I can post again! Thanks ckaihatsu.
Yup.
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Yea, it's fucked up. In any decent society they wouldn't have the ability organize. They would be rounded up in padded wagons and sent to reeducation facilities. But I'll be damned if I want the present state to have that kinda power.
Why not, though -- ? With incidents of sexual harassment, for example, cops and white-collar types are sent to 'diversity training', which is a *positive* step, however inadequate (due to the *institutional* nature of racism, sexism, etc., manifested in society).
If the state can be maneuvered into doing some of our political work *for* us (by taking liberal-type steps in specific instances), then that would be a *good* thing, though ultimately inadequate, of course.
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One of the biggest problems with everything is the fact that more often then not these boys don't own capital or the means that produce it yet are hell bent on defending white supremacy. It makes absolutely zero sense to me.
It's reactionary opportunism -- carving out formerly-racist-hegemonic social practices, for contrived social justification / status, and power, of course. It's inherently *idealism* since it's not based on a materialist analysis of societal production (labor).
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But deluded boys carrying torches, while tremendously ugly and threatening to the most vulnerable elements of society, isn't really all that captivating an example of white supremacy. A better example of white supremacy are the fucking bank accounts of many of the people on TV condemning those boys. And that pisses me off.
Good point.
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If there is an upside to this...it's them being disrupted from organizing in the future. I hope they are. And I hope they think long and hard about their future endeavors.
They won't, of course, because they're *opportunists* -- their politics goes as deep as whatever they can get away with.
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I hope the consciousness of the state's various maneuverings within this become more and more visible.
Yes -- that's what the current emergent mass consciousness, from empirical political polarization, is already revealing.