UKIP success leads BNP to replace its leader

UKIP success leads BNP to replace its leader.
Widely reported but including the BBC here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28408039
Interesting that years of antifa activity seemed to boost BNP support, then when some antifa targeted UKIP instead, there was minor UKIP success and BNP flop. Perhaps there is a lesson about how useful antifa is.

But why would antifa increase support? Publicity generated from clashes between the two groups?

bullshit, antifascism is a reactive movement by definition, playing basketball does not make you taller...

Exactly. I see how it could be ineffective, but not how it could worsen the problem.

There are situations where "anti-fascism" made the problem worse, in the UK it seems Searchlight together with MI5 intentionally inflated the danger and capabilities of Combat18. Also I think a big part of the problems in the east of the Ukraine now can be blamed on people misusing anti-fascist fears to fan a conflict for ulterior motives.
But the focus in England away from the BNP towards UKIP was an accurate threat assessment (ignoring the question obviously wheter traditional millitant anti-fascist tactics are useful to combat a party like UKIP)

I think it's slightly misleading to suggest that the rise or fall of UKIP or BNP had much to do with Antifa. Much of this spike in support comes from casual mainstream voters responding to current, specific issues (however imagined those issues are). These people may not identify as racist, xenophobic or fascist, even if their ill thought beliefs would de facto imply this. 'Nudge nudge wink wink racism towards Muslins or Eastern Europeans, but they've convinced themselves that they're not racist, just concerned about 'immigration' and 'British society's. They are de facto racist, but this support comes from a totally different strata of society than fash.

I fully 100% support Antifa, but few in the mainstream know about it, much less respond to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactance_%28psychology%29 can play out on "both" sides - they more one side is attacked, the more they dig in their heels, "See? Look how they're oppressing us, look how much we need to fight back."

Similarly, if someone says one strategy doesn't work, the expected response from a supporter of that strategy would be to respond with counter-evidence that it does work. Happens all over debate forums.

I do have right-wing friends - "mainstream" right-wing, not neo-Nazi right-wing mind you, but my approach to them is not to disagree with them at all - to avoid reactance. It's instead to find ways to appear to "agree" with them while pushing leftist propaganda at the same time.

For example, if they're whining about "liberals taking away their guns" I encourage them with stuff from the Black Panthers.

If they're complaining about "Obama's big government" I encourage them with information about drone strikes around the world.

If they're praising Jesus, I encourage them with analysis from liberation theology.

I don't think it takes a genius to work out that

1-many people don't see their racism as racism - how many times have you heard 'I'm not a racist, but...' or 'I can't be a racist my friend Desmond is black, you wouldn't even know he was one of them...'?;

2-the media hegemony constantly puts forward the idea of the 'reasonable middle ground' which is fact reactionary and nationalistic;

3-anyone not on the 'reasonable middle ground' is therefore by definition 'unreasonable' and 'extreme', ie a dangerous fanatic;

4-as the 'reasonable middle ground' is racist-without-admitting-it and nationalistic, groups like Anti-Fa, by attacking racist and xenophobic groups like BNP and UKIP actually help to rally the racist-but-don't-admit-it 'reasonable middle ground' to support those groups, because if they are under attack from (previously defined) 'dangerous extremists' then it must be because they are also part of the 'reasonable middle ground'. Re-inforced every time the Daily Mail prints an article going 'well we don't agree with x but they've got a point about y'. Thouasnds of people will agree.

As long as the mass media has a top-down chain of command, divide and conquer will be used.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/color-tv/

the team found clips of mixed-race scenes from TV shows with prominent black and white characters. In each clip, they blocked out one character to hide his or her race, turned off the sound, then asked volunteers whether the blocked-out character was seen by the other characters in a positive or negative light. in nine of the 11 shows—Friday Night Lights, CSI, House, CSI: Miami, Scrubs, Greek, Heroes, Reno 911! and Grey’s Anatomy—viewers thought the actors’ body language and facial expressions were less favorable when they were responding to someone who was black.

After watching clips in which black characters were treated less favorably than whites, the viewers’ conscious attitudes about race did not change. But they were faster to associate white people with positive words such as “laughter” and black people with negative words such as “failure”. After watching clips in which black characters were treated better than whites, however, viewers not only displayed less implicit bias toward blacks, they also showed improved conscious attitudes toward blacks as measured by a questionnaire.

Yeah, I mean it's not like we're now seeing UKIP dominating in Barking. The two attract completely different demographics and UKIP support has predominantly come from Eurosceptic Tory voters in 'Little England' areas where I doubt anti-fascists even have to personnel to operate.

I would say that all four points are ultimately factors of your second point, re: media hegemony.

And it's not just the media. For decades now (probably going back to the SDP circa 1914 although I can't talk for the role of the news media then) politicians and capital have made it something of a survival strategy for capitalism to posit its more acceptable ideologies (mainly variants of liberal democracy, left-of-centre social democracy, and right-of-centre conservatism) as the centre ground of politics, hence the logic follows that the further away you are from the dominant capitalist ideology of the time, the more of an extremist you are.

Culturally this is quite a reactionary ploy since it relies on an idea of moral absolutism - that there is a defined 'middle ground', or 'reasonable' type of politics, regardless of social, political, cultural or economic context.

Also per the thread fuck the fash. The BNP are done no matter what. UKIP will get found out because whatever Farage says, he is right at the heart of the establishment and the 'ordinary' members of UKIP are absolute loons who are (probably) fairly far away politically speaking from the "i'm not racist but..." brigade.

Are you sure? I think the support for the BNP and the UKIP comes precisely from that same 'I'm not racist but...' Daily Mail reading brigade.

The members are different (except for a few of the cleverer BNPers who jumped ship) but I think the supporters are exactly the same people.

Does anyone have any thoughts on UKIPs newfound devotion to the NHS and to TTIP opposition?

Some reckon it's now hard to put them on the political spectrum but to my mind it brings up the whole quasi-fascist debate again. They put the national in national health, opposing globalisation isn't exactly against the grain for someone of that ilk either. Are they out and out brownshirt types, no, but is this a sign of them edging closer to BNP territory?

Token populism to win/retain the elder/poor white vote, wilders does the same here but when push comes to shove he always vote with the austerity conservatives.

Just like how the Republicans use religion to win the non-rich vote, but when they get in office, it's "business" as usual. The public face of demagoguery appeals to the majority. The private face of demagoguery appeals to the ruling class.

You may be right.

The rise of UKIP seems remarkably similar to that of the National Front in the 1980's. They both arose further Right than the Conservatives, given mass media coverage, whilst the Conservatives created public scare campaigns (then it was against the Black British through focus on mugging and immigration, today it is against Islam and, again, immigration) for NF/UKIP to exploit. In the 80's, the Conservatives then incorporated these fears into their own politic. It seems a similar process is happening again today. UKIPs success, which has ridden on the back of fears created through misinformation, has seen all major parties toe a similar line on immigration. Since UKIP success at the European Elections, the Conservatives have focused heavily on the concept of "British values" (a corrupt cherry picked version of British history) which increasingly (through PREVENT and the new powers against extremism which Theresa May has called for at the conference) creates a very narrow definition of what it is to be British.

We seem to be nearing the point where unless you subscribe to the version of "British values" which Parliament agrees with, you are deemed a threat. This loyalty to the nation above all other loyalties has been a constant in Fascism, and as such raises serious questions about the direction of not only the Conservative party but all major British political parties.

It's probably not a matter of whether Fascism will come to the UK, because it's already fascist - just a "soft" version that tries not to show its face openly in public. The mass media in every major capitalist "democracy" is anything but democratic - and those in charge aim to keep it that way. What the mass media is promoting on any given day may sometimes appear to shift in one direction or another, but their goal is to maintain a firm grip on the ideological thought of the nation - if it feels it needs to promote UKIP to a certain point to keep leftists at bay, then that's exactly what they are doing. Of course, pretending to support democratic values is part of the act, in an attempt to gather more support from the masses than they deserve.

As one red white and blue, ridiculous sun begins to set another purple, gaffawing fuckwit sun rises to take it's place...(that's a weird metaphor but i'm going to stick to it).
Few things made me more hearted and at the same time dismayed as the euro election results for north west england (where I live) - Griffin/bnp lose only seat but ukip gain two :crying: