Being an alpha male and socialist?

Howdy, folks. Californian serf here.

A male, I've always been heavily in tune with my masculinity, despite my staunch stance as a social democrat, as my mothers and fathers before me. Without the intention to romanticize or sketch pity, my father perished whilst I was very young in a naval accident deemed suicide due to the posterical stresses of submarine going, something I've been pained with all my 22 years. He was a reactor operator on the USS Dallas.

But anyway, what I wanted to draw on was, quite simply, if dominant masculinity is indeed accepted in the leftist dialogue. For any who may have read Julius Caesar's commentary on the conquest of Gaul, you would know that Julius' father perished when he, too, was young, allowing his masculine, decisive features to develop prematurely (he had to make the decisions for his family). I've pursued all sorts of mustang endeavors over the past couple years of college, and it's been great. But I've been called misogynist, sexist - racist, once, for refusing to accept a black man's offer of pip pip gollywock. As a man who supports the dismantling of the fascist governments, however, I legitimately am none of those things, from the core of my soul.


So really what I'm coming to is: is it acceptable to be a dominant alpha male and socialist at the same time?

This isn't intended to be an answer to your question (But it could be taken that way I guess):

moved to oi learning due to the o.p. saying he's a social dem and them manarchist nature of the question.

I think you should start wearing a dress.

Also, I don't know what an alpha male is. It sounds like a cartoon character. Do they fight crime? Do they have any superhero capabilities?

But to answer the question: no, it would be counterproductive.

First, what qualities of "alpha maleness" are we talking about? If we mean assertiveness and confidence, then yes these are beneficial for a class movement generally, and in the sense of for individual radicals in workplaces and communities and prisons to be able to help others organize and to teach them to be confident and assertive. If we mean qualities like dominating and intimidating others, then no I don't think these are beneficial for a working class movement.

Second and most fundamentally, why are these qualities associated with maleness? Anecdotally and historically, the idea of inherent gender based social qualities doesn't hold up. Because of sexism in society there tend to be some differences in how people generally act based on gender, but this isn't inherent. For example, women are generally encouraged to not argue or say contentious things while men are encouraged to express their opinions.

So to try and build a movement of broad leadership from below, of workers, we need a movement that can help train people to be leaders and assertive. Create space for people who have been taught in school and jobs to follow, to lead and organize themselves. That means finding ways to overcome social habits and biases that mean working class people in general are not starting from a point of being trained how to organize and speak confidently; more specifically women who are by default not encouraged to speak up or lead in our society. Movements themselves will train a whole lot more people than we ever will and in the us a lot of the early militant industrial organizing was done by immigrants and often women. Subjectively, though we should do what we can to create inclusive groups and movements that help people support and learn from each other -- not movements dominated by those best trained in our society to lead by default... College educated white men, for example.

Yeah, OP's definitely gonna have to expand upon what he means by "alpha male". All I think of when I hear the phrase is "posturing manchild" and that isn't usually a good thing to be.

I'm sorry for your loss.

It's going to depend on how you define "dominant masculinity". It sounds to me that even use of this term carries a hint of sexism. I also consider myself a male with those personality traits generally associated with being "alpha". But I also understand that the main reason I feel driven to find this important is because of the influence of the existing patriarchy. Just as you must consider this very same influence on Caesar. I think you will find that those traits aren't necessarily unique to men--though they are generally associated with them. This is mostly a social construction.

I think it is very acceptable to have confidence, surety, and decisiveness and be a leftist--if this is really what you are asking. But associating these traits with a particular sex, is sexist and not acceptable.

My father too died when I was very young (2), but I'm not very masculine :( :(

Also, what's a pip pip gollywock?

Are we really doing this?

You're right. Let's not engage anyone that we have disagreements with. What a great way to move leftism away from it's fringe status! :laugh:

I think it's p. obvious this thread isn't serious.

Ugh.

You should ritually cleanse yourself of your former beta-male status through ritual sacrifice of an omega-male.

I guess your right--I mean look at the guys name and all. But I still think engagement is useful.

There's a time and a place ya loon. This is not it.

Yea, I guess that's my problem. I'm always overly optimistic.

Don't feel bad about it. It is a good habit to try to help people.

Nah, I don't. BTW, good book Profitting without Producing. I'm reading through it now. I found your post on it in one of the What are you reading threads.

I'm glad that I could help. I had to stop reading it due to exams but I started again last night.

I just want to know what a pip pip gollywock is.

I think that it is some kind of breakfast sandwich.

Isn't "alpha male" just some bullshit term mra's on reddit and 4chan apply to themselves to feel more "masculine"?

a pip pip gollywock is a screwdriver.
it is based on this meme: http://lurkerfaqs.com/boards/400-cur...ents/61549862/.

I think it might actually mean a screwdriver. I don't think I've heard it in the context that OP is using it in.

I heard it often before. It has a lot to do with frat culture as well. There is this fantasy of dominance via charisma and strength that some men swoon over.

That makes it even more weird for him to use in his post.

I've seen in past threads the ones calling themselves "alpha males" usually get banned. Same witt "manarchists."

I don't even know why they try. They don't even troll that well.

No they don't troll well at all. I read everyone else's posts and ignored the OP thinking it was a rather obvious troll and not worth engaging in open RevLeft combat. Perhaps I'll use words to gun the sexist down if the poor thing posts again. Also worst username ever!

I am a lambda male. I like the symbol. Alpha is just too basic.

Delta males differentiate better. ba tum tiss.

To me this whole 'alpha male' and 'manarchist' thing just screams "I'm a sexist who loves patriarchy." You will never be a real socialist if you adhere to this sexist garbage, you're just an asshole who wants a sexist hierarchy with you yourself at the top of the pyramid. And your lackeys below you and women way down on the ground. The 'manarchists' and 'alpha males' can kiss my shiny white ass.

Various masculinities should be accepted as no more or less legitimate than any other form of gendered expression, the same goes for various femininities. Discriminatory attitudes (racism, sexism etc) should be criticized and discouraged. I think it's as simple as that, really.

I thought this thread was about a discredited ethological model of wolf packs.

Unfortunately upon reading the OP it turns out that the starter isn't a wolf at all.

Please do not mock me. I would like it if a fellow alpha leftist could respond to my initial question, or at least a beta (have not seen one as high a rank as of yet) to avoid certain forms of bias.

I am being legitimate with my questions, yet you all went apeshit, moved my thread to the "people who disagree with us" timeout corner, and called me a manchild. Please be professional, thanks.

When was it discredited? I still see it used in politically neutral biological discussions, pretty frequently.

Not to say that the OP is anything other than what people have already said; I was just under the impression that the alpha-beta-omega model was still widely accepted as a component of analysis for social mammals.

This, for example, makes no mention of any objections raised to the system, and on animal shows - again, not a good barometer of scientific opinion, but I don't know what else we're working with here - it's just as common to hear the narrator referring to "alpha females" as to alpha males.

You are obviously trolling. Does anybody even use the term "alpha male" for anything outside of national geographic documentaries about wolves?

Socialism is a wide and diverse movement and it depends on what meaning you apply to alpha male; as a movement for social equality, socialism usually includes recognition for gender equality though I suspect if you go back into the 19th century, this may not be the case. personally, I think of socialism in terms of realizing freedom and so would consider women as equal in this endevour (though it is often hard to spot where I myself perpetuate inequalities I have been brought up to accept)

It is important to remember that the USSR and others were socially VERY conservative (except in russia during the 20's which had a aborted sexual revolution), whilst the sexual revolution and the New left in the 1960's and 70's have done much to change the definition of gender roles within patriarchal society.

Conceptions of masculinity have been and 'are' accepted within leftist dialogue, but the definition of masculinity will not doubt be subject to wide variation on depending how conservative/liberal that particular member/group/ideology within the left is and to what extent they are influenced by feminist critiques of patriarchal or traditional family relations and gender roles.

I haven't lost anyone close to me, but I would strongly suspect there is a relationship between how you're dealing with the loss of your father as an adult (and no doubt the social stigma of suicide) through the pursuit of a masculine identity, especially if his naval/military background meant you faced social pressures to take on more responsibility than it is possible to shoulder. If that is the case, I would want to offer this advice in the event it is not forthcoming from others. it is meant respectfully, but I understand if it is not received that way.

Ideology, can often be a moral education for young adults because secular societies fail to give us a ready-made moral compass. This is particularly true for atheists who simply have 'no where else to go'. (I'm 24 and so am only just coming out of it and boy has it been an 'education'). it is part of the process of finding out who we are, where we stand in relation to others and in society. I think this may in fact be a sensitive and personal issue for you which my gut says how you deal with the loss of your father is more important than politics which can only perform an advisory role by informing us as to the social nature of gender roles and identities.

It is important for you to put your personal happiness first in developing a healthy sense of identity (and relationships with women if that is an issue) before often very abstract political commitments which can help rationalize and bury old wounds. this much I do know from experience as my relationship with my parents has been rather 'cold' and 'distant', so I have felt great hostility towards 'society' by mistaking it for them. In general, Ideology is better a means to achieve personal freedom than as an end in itself. it is better to consider these things carefully based on how we feel rather than to try to fulfill others expectations on a purely rational level based on who they think we should be.

You're acting very aggressive and emotional and I'm not entirely sure why. One would think with such emotion you would be capable of feeling compassion but, of course, that would be harmful to your womanhood or supportive of a man. If I must kiss your ass for asking a simple question, then you can perform oral sex on my phallus for getting angry in a mature discussion.

I think you've been rused into belief in this "patriarchy" business. You'd find that humiliating boys and men on popular television such as sitcoms, talk shows and so forth has become widely acceptable and even moreso lauded - that is not progression, that is division with "21st century" stapled on top. When a boy is raped by a female teacher it is not called rape but a gift by such media functions.

The capitalist jews are doing this to drive us further apart - divide and conquer - and enslave every other human being on the planet

That was fun, i wondered if you would make the 5 posts... Bye

The alpha male... the state of social being characterized by a direct, static and submissive relationship between the hominid and nature. So adorable it is to see these "darwinists" these "scientific realists" exalt gender relations which exist at the whims of capital and our current social condition as the unending, 'natural' and definitive characteristic of our species. A social condition that has existed for some five to six centuries. They speak of "alpha males" and "survival of the fittest" as would children given the works of Darwin. What distinguishes bipedal hominids from the rest, is precisely the absence of the alpha-male cycle, which is antithetical to the revolutionary relationship with nature that separates humans from other animals. It is a form of self mockery to call oneself an "alpha male". And how laughable is it to characterize survival of the fittest as the existence of the struggle for survival on a personal level between individuals in societies within the proximity of state, and civilization. If survival of the fittest is defined as the struggle for survival between different agents that have different access, dare I say relationships to the basis of that which supports life, than any idiot knows that the only social manifestation of survival of the fittest is class struggle.