Hello from Germany / A question for Leftits

Hello.
My name is Hans,24 YO from Germany.
I am not a communist or anarchist, I am a social democrat. I believe in a free country where people are free to do what they want, but I also believe in a social state that has to take care of its citizens.
Now,I would like Leftist here to answer a few questions. I am very puzzled by the behavior of German Leftists.

As you know, my country and the whole EU is being threatened by immigration. Why is the Left so pro-immigration? Why does it want to destroy the nation by importing foreign elements? My parents told me that 30 years ago there was almost no crime, now there are immigrant gangs beating people up, shitting everywhere and throwing thrash, and not behaving properly. These Third World elements are simply not welcome in Germany, as they cannot integrate.
Furthermore, the Left is also-pro Islamic. Why is this? Why do they want our Europe to become Eurabia?
Islam is bad, and has to be fought.

These issues have been bothering me very much.
Dear Germany and German culture is in danger, and the Leftists don't care. The Nazis are even worse with their racism and general idiocy.

What I'd like people here is to explain to me who is right and who is wrong. Maybe i'm wrong about this.
But i see these immigrants every day, and it just keeps getting worse.

Mind you, these worries are shared by millions of Germans.
Europe is in danger of becoming an "Eurostan".

I understand that you won't "welcome" me, however please do be at least polite enough to try and answer this.
The Right is picking up strength because workers are sick of all this, and the Left keeps ignoring the issue. I don't want a Nazi Germany again.

Regards.

P.S. I had some problems with my account, so I had to make another one.

Hey, normally you would have been banned for discrimination, I'm sure other users will explain you what is very discriminating in your post, but since you claim to want to learn I only restricted you for now and moved your thread to a section you can still post.

If it is a free country then why do you oppose immigration? Simply because some didn't have the fortune to be born in your country?

What is "the nation" but a set of arbitrary lines in the sand dedicated to formulating war, dividing the people, and creating a false identity.

I was going to be nice to you, but now fuck you. You are a charlatan, who speaks falsehoods against those who are getting fucked by the general attitude that you profess. Immigrants are assaulted by fucking Nazis and their nationalist cheerleaders like you. Immigrants don't cause crime poverty, alienation and the police state do.
We are not fucking animals who you can describe as shitting everywhere and throwing trash or third world elements. You really want to get rid of these problems? Get rid of capitalism.

We aren't pro-Islamic, you're just a racist.

You are only a step behind them with your bullshit.

Because workers ought to be able to live where they like.
Foreigners moving into a country doesn't destroy a nation.

That being said, yeah, we do want to burn all nations and dance on the ashes.
Sounds like your parents are looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses. Do you have any evidence that crime is on the rise or that it's because of immigrants?

p.s. you might want to ask your parents about Germany 40 before that. It will be an enlightening experience I'm sure.

Says who?

Nah we just think it's wrong to oppress people based on religion.

Xenophobia and racism are worse.

I should hope they don't. Let it all rot.

You do realize that your xenophobia isn't much better than the Nazis racism, right? In fact you're pretty much touting the far-right racist party line with this nonsense you're talking.
Millions of germans have been very wrong in the past, too.

No it's not, and even if it was, who cares?

It's because scapegoating is an effective political tactic that's as old as the hills. I mean, take yourself as an example. You don't want another Nazi Germany but here you are 'othering' immigrants, acting as if 'third world people' are lesser than natural born Germans, somehow.
.

Because it is not the issue -- it is a misdirection. It is a red herring. It is scapegoating. The problems Germany -- and the world -- are facing does not stem from the immigrants, the weak, the poor, the sick. It stems from capitalism, and nationalism and tribalism only protects that.

This post makes me sad.

Don't let yourself get into power then. If I'm not mistaken your username means "German Patriot"

I'm not pro-immigration. If capitalism were destroyed then that would allow poor countries to develop and to provide decent lives for their people, and it would end wars and famines and then these people wouldn't have to abandon their homelands and come to societies that are alien to them and where they are sometimes neither liked nor welcome. I'm an immigrant in Europe from Chechnya, my family fled from war. If I could return to Chechnya, I would, but I can't...capitalism found it acceptable to install a dictator in my country who orders the kidnappings and murders of all people who fought against the Russians or pro-Russian forces(my father did, his brothers did, and so did my mother's brother and other family members, we come from a clan that's more opposed to the oppressors in the Kremlin than most others) and their family members. It's especially dangerous for me because my father fought with Mashkadov.

I think it's pretty offensive to call me a "foreign element" because while I am very close with the Chechen diaspora in Europe, I did integrate myself with the countries where I lived(I've learned English and French pretty well, in addition to my native Chechen and Russian) and I have never been a member of an immigrant gang that beats people up(nor have I ever heard of one), I'm not a criminal, I don't throw trash around and I never shit on the street, I only use toilets...

Leftists are not pro-Islam either. I'm pretty anti-Islam myself actually, I'm anti-religion in general but especially anti-Islam. Leftists are anti-discrimination. We're against discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation, gender, race, etc.

Because their are still people, like you and I..
I too would find it hard to integrate into a country, which expects me to beat people up, shit everywhere and throw trash around.
Islam is, as any religion, a reflection of the material conditions of society. If a person/society is in social- and/or economic trouble, then fundamentalism is more prominent. If fundamentalism is risen, then it is because of a bigger problem in society.
Turn down the racism, please..

And they say the BA is too unreasonable :drool:

What is this... I don't even...

It's funny that at one point Iraq was the pinnacle of civiliation. Not much after that Iran was. All this while Europe was mired in barbarism. The whole of western civilization is built on principles borrowed from middle eastern and african foundations.

But now all of a sudden these asiatics are the source of all Europe's problems and simply unfit for civilization. Of course it couldn't be the centuries of exploitation and poverty they have been subject to; the collective ego crying out in agony. It's who they are and where they are from...

Buddy, you change "Islam" to "Judaism," and you're saying absolutely nothing different than the NAZIs; racist social-capitalism is your ideal.

... which... when I think about this... you should know this. Anybody with a 5th grade education in recent history should know this. I suspect you are a troll. If my suspicions are correct... Well done! 10 of 10. :cool:

This part really bothers me. It sounds like you are insinuating that immigrants are naturally predisposed to commit crime. To be blunt, your view is uninformed and completely wrong. Immigrants come to Germany due to the often worse conditions found in their respective countries. It is poverty and alienation that leads to some of the things you mentioned.

OP is secretly a fucking closet nazi...

Also meinst du dass die einwanderung von Menschen aus fleisch und blut wie du und ich, eine NOCH GrÖßere Gefahr darstellt als das Kapitalistische system dass ganze NATIONEN wie Griecheland BERAUBT und die arbeitende bevölkerung den Lohn um die hälfte kürzt und in den ruin treibt? JA? Glaubst du die massen an immigranten die nun nach Deutschland ziehen aus Griechenland das WOLLEN ihre Heimat zu verlassen? Glaubst du der Mensch aus Somalien, oder dem reichsten land der Welt der Demokratischen Republik Kongo wo die Amerikaner einen brutalen Diktator für Schürf- nicht MenschenRechte unterstützen; zu einem Land wandern will wo ungebildete (höchstwahrscheinlich noch Klassengenossen) Menschen wie Du ihn als "Untermenschen" ansehen, wo er Sich ERST Beweisen Muß(!) Bevor er überhaupt als Würdiger und Gleicher Mensch von Kleinbürgern wie dir Angesehen wird? Glaubst du dass macht den 5,000 Hungerflüchtigen Menschen die jährlich vor FRONTEX auf hoher see, entgegen U.N. Menschenrechte sei gesagt, Ertrinken, Spaß zu sterben?

Leftists are pro-immigrants because we want poeple to have the chance to live wherever they want. We don't want them having to live in a country were there might be wars and maybe rascism to that person.
Maybe they can't find work in theire own country and need another country simply to survive. I want countries to be multi-cultural so that rascism will some day die out.

The nation will be destroyed? Maybe the German cultural will dissepear some day, the only people that will be sad is the Germans, houndreads of million will probably be happy! I am not being rascist to Germans, but it would be a great day when the German military and weapon production FALLS! That would be a big step towards a peaceful world when there are no weapons left. Germany would be a start

Leftist are pro-islamic?
We want more rights for islam people and for them to live in a country/world whitout rascism, but not many of us support the religion nor any religions of some sort.

I hope this helped you. I wrote it in a hurry, if your wondering anything please ask and I will answar! =)

oh hey there, im from germany as well, this shoulod be interesting.

so you want a free country and a wellfarestate but you want to deny this to human being who live in germany just because they dont have a white skin or dont have a german sounding name, right?

me too, but thats for other reasons then yours.

unlike you we leftist really like freedom, we want that people can move and live where they want. and yes we want the destruction of all nations and states but this will only be achieved by revolution not by immegration.

then your parents are pretty ignorant, crime did exist 30 years ago and there was a lot of it too. just the media wasnt all over to make any crime to a media story.

you mean you dont welcome then because you're a racist and hate people because of their skin colour, is that it? the "crimes" you describe are cause by poverty, if you want to fight these crimes then fight against poverty and not against the victims of this poverty. the notion about "third world elements" just proves again how racist your attitude is.

oh now you just sound like one of those racist from politically incorrect, do your come from there? that would explain a lot. the left is no "pro-islamic" but it is against discrimination, and when muslims are discriminated because of their religion then the left usually trys to fight this discrimination. again the notion about a eurabia is so silly and only used by right wing xenophobes that it proves again what you really are.

ah yeah, poverty doesnt bother you, the capitalist crisis doesnt bother you but you're bothered by some poor brown/black people. says a alot about you.

i dont know your racism would be very much acceptet by the nazis and they would do soemthing about the "muslim threat" and the "third world elements". so i dont know why you dont like nazis.

how do you know their immegrants? couldnt they be germans who dont happen to have a white skin? yes poverty is getting worse in germany, and if you would really care about increased crime and everything you'd fight poverty and not the poor.

no its not, this xenophobic idiocity that germany or europe will become islamic is stupid to its core. but yeah, these "worries" are shared by millions, racism is such an easy awnser after all right?

well it might not be polite to call you a racist, but your little essay here reeks of racism.

so you dont want a nazi germany, but you want a germany where there are no brown/black people, no muslims(what about jews, they're bad too arnt they?), makes sense.

ps: Alle Menschen sind Ausländer- fast überall - Alle
Rassisten sind Arschlöcher- Überall!

Man I don't know what to think of that original post. Either you are a fascist pretending to be a social democrat or you've successfully taken the logic of Social-Democracy to its natural conclusion: side with the nation and the reforms of that nation over class struggle and liberation from ruling classes.

I don't know that at all and don't think this is the case. In fact there has been a return to emigration out of some European countries from what I understand. I think Ireland's population is shrinking again for example.

I don't see how people moving around threatens anything - it's a basic fact of human society, people move around. The problem is when political borders are run in the interests of the ruling class. They're fine with capital crossing borders, their fine with their militaries crossing borders when it suits them, their fine with dictating the economy of Greece from Berlin.

In fact in the US they are fine with labor crossing borders too - they just want to be able to create a second class of worker who can not organize, can't make a fuss about exploitation or police harassment.

Borders and nationalist xenophobia help strengthen the current order of society and prevent workers from organizing effectively and so they are ultimately counter to the interests of regular people. I may be forced on the labor market to compete with immigrants, but really we just want the same thing and too the people in charge of the system, they want the same things of us: to sit down and take what they give us and force us to each fight over crumbs.

Increasing restrictions on immigrants and lessening their ability to have rights only helps the ruling class to force down wages: it's divide and rule. The solution is for workers to fight not on a national basis, but on a class basis along their common interests of not being exploited or pushed around by authorities.

Why are you so against immigration?

You mean tropical fruits?

Yup, sounds like college students alright. Rioting after sporting games, date-raping and even gang-raping people, gangs of Fraternity-affiliated people torturing their new recruits causing alcohol poisoning and the occasional death, getting into drunken brawls, shitting and pissing in public, rampant drug selling and use.

This is why me and my buddies have formed an organization. We like to pull up lawn chairs and hold loaded rifles on the sidewalk when students have Keg-parties. We just want to remind them of their place.

Obviously I'm joking, but I think it demonstrates that you can prove a group of people are bad if you profile almost any group.

In the US in the mid-1800s did you know that Germans were banned from buying and consuming alcohol? We all know that Germans are drunk and lazy in their jobs at the mill unless disciplined with proper Anglo-American virtues.:rolleyes:

It's the oldest trick in the capitalist book - get one part of the population to turn on others as the source of problems caused by capitalism in the first place. In the US it was the French and their radical Jacobeanism, then the Irish for the inability to assimilate and their "foreign and evil popeish religion", then the "dutch" German immigrants and their lazy drunkenness, then the Jews for their inability to assimilate and the "foreign religion", then the Chineese for also not assimilating (of course this had nothing to do with forced segregation into "Chinatowns"), then Italians for their radical syndicalism and popeish yada yada, the the pols, then the Black migrants and Okiees who were FROM THE US EVEN, then the Mexicans, and so on.

These nativist sentiments have almost always accompanied larger and more general attacks on native working class people, they have often happened during economic contractions in which the ruling class needed to fire loads of people, so they targeted some groups and then blamed them for joblessness and poverty even though it was because of the economic system making them poor and unemployed!

This is a trick played by the ruling class. If you are sincere, please think about this because falling for these ideas is like being a feudal peasant supporting the King who defends peasants from the evil aristocrats... when, in fact they are all on the same side despite monarchical myths about being the defender of the people.

I'm not religious. I am against persecution and repression though and I oppose attempts by right-wing Christians in the US to promote pro-war and anti-immigrant sentiments by scapegoating and attacking Muslims. I'm also against European "secularists" using secularism as a cover for anti-immigrant, anti-arab sentiments.

Our? An arab person living and working, even born in Europe is not European?

I care about the working class and the health of the German, US, UK, Chinese state is actually a detriment to all working people in the long run.

Besides, what's all this talk about a nation, hell, the US is older than Germany.:lol:

Bullshit, European workers are in danger of a huge onslaught of austerity. The US workers are too, but there's not as much fat to cut so to speak because we've been dealing with more severe cuts for a generation now. The lot of the Greek workers are what Europeans should be fearing not some right-wing hysteria about "foreign culture".

If the European left isn't taking a strong stance and making material pushes to organize working class fight back and solidarity between native and foreign-born workers and also fighting scapegoating of immigrant groups, then it looks bleak - not for nation states who will reap from our disorganization and in-fighting as a class, but workers will have a bleak future of downward mobility and cuts to services and assistance programs... all of which will be carried out by national leaders while some blame immigrants for causing these cuts that the ruling class wanted anyway.

Ein volk! Ein reich! Ein Deutschland!! :rolleyes:


You know, your politics remind me of another infamous German from the last century. I just can't recall his name....

While theoretically it is possible that an immigrant (as well as any other worker) holds fashist, bourgeoise, lumpen or even feudalist beliefs, I belive that marxists should always treat people like processes. Objectively all workers are in the same boat, even if some at the moment don't understand it. So to close a country before immigration is to weaken the working class. Inability to understand that is the reason why social democracy is a bourgeois ideology.

Btw, it amazes me how quickly European social democrats are turning to fashism.

guys op is never gonna post again

euraracist