The Middle East and Palestine aren't irrelevant, they're of main interest to United States and Imperialist foreign policy in modern times. Albania could never be compared in the same way.
Would you support Fascists if they were fighting against Imperialism? Which side would you consider more progressive? Communists oppose both. But which one is more socially progressive in regards to views on Women, minorities, etc. ?
Communism is irrelevant in both Tunisia and Portugal. When you say "Largest CP", that could have anywhere from two to 100 members in those countries. Nice try, shit head.
All of them are. The Tunisian and Portuguese Hoxhaist parties are just as irrelevant as the rest.
Orthodox Marxism is a Marxian mode of thought. It's not, in any way shape or form, an ideological vanguard for a mass movement. It's not comparable to hoxhaism, trotskyism, Maoism, etc. Even though none of those would exist without Orthodox Marxism.
If Hoxha "Normalized" relations with the U.S., it would make little to no difference. It still didn't have an option, it was never a large player in world politics, despite your obscure fantasies of Hoxha's Albania ever being relevant.
What's your point, exactly? That they had the option to put an embassy in the USSR and the United States? How noble of them.
The regime was only unpopular on the Rural, isolated side of Afghanistan in which the population was largely illiterate and uneducated. The Landowners took advantage of this and as a result... We know the story.
Again, the sky is blue, who cares? We are arguing on whether the Muj are to be supported.
Actually, shit head, this was probably the most significant factor, all others merely being a chain of events in response.
What kind of Populist bullshit is this? That still isn't viable justification for supporting the Muj ("Afghan people" in bullshit terms).
The Vietcong can't be compared to the fucking Muhajadeen, I'm sorry.
Many Maoists claim it was. Okay, even if it was not in Hoxhaist terms, can you name me a couple successful National Liberation wars (that INCLUDED class collaboration) that didn't end up with the oppressing class in power?
Yes yes, dismiss my whole post because I mentioned Nepal.
Actually, it's just Imperialism, because we Scientific Marxists understand the terms in a strict materialist matter, and recognize a country is Imperialist regardless if it prefers to drape itself in a red banner.
Hoxha wanted the "Afghan People" (The Muj) to be victorious over the Soviet Union. He got what he wanted. He predicted that this would pave way for real class struggle in Afghanistan and real grounds for "real communists" (Hoxhaists which don't exist) to gain the support of hte population and take over the country. You tell me, was he right? Is Afghanistan a better place without the Soviet "puppet regime"? A real Marxian such as myself would oppose both sides in the conflict, seeing that both the rule of the PDPA and modern day Afghanistan are pretty shitty. But since Hoxhaists chose to side with the Muj, they have to be consistent and identify with the result.
These are not comparable scenarios. Like I said, the Albanian PPSH cannot be compared to the Muhajadin, but the Muj can definitely be compared to several Fascist currents. The PPSH were more Progressive than the Italian Fascists, yet the Muj was extremely reactionary in comparison to the Soviet Union. That's the difference.
Okay, more Bourgeois academic works. I can cite you 100 books that are "Academic" that assert Stalin killed 30 million people. This isn't a viable source, though.
And what was end result? A shit hole. A bigger shit hole than the "revisionist" countries. As a matter of fact, revisionist countries on average did much better than Albania.
A situation emerges between Liberalist Imperialists and Fascist resistance that has support of the majority of the population. What's your answer?
When did I have illusions in regards to the Soviet motives in Afghanistan? Just because it's easy to point out that a group which forces women to marry their rapists is a tad bit less progressive than the Soviet Union.
Okay? I don't care if the majority of Afghans didn't identify with it. Also, from experience, it doesn't look like the majority of Albanians identified with their state. The mass immigration from Albania immidetly after the collapse could be a sign.
And foreign imperialism external from the Soviet Union had nothing to do with this. You seem to be under the impression that the Soviet Union was the only power that had interests in Afghanistan...
I love how you think Orthodox Marxism is some kind of Ideology or collective group of individuals who have the same opinion about everything. It's quite pathetic.
Be consistent. Want me to quote some Marx and Engels that were supporting British Imperialism in India?
No doubt. But as a women, as a religious minority, who'd you rather live under?
Oh fucking god, did you actually think it was supposed to be a deep fucking story? You totally ignored the fucking analogy. Ismail, answer me this: Conflict between Imperialist Liberalists and actual, existing Fascists. Whom do you think is more progressive? Both are to be opposed. But which one do you deem more reactionary?
Jesus fucking Christ you're a dumb one. Why do you take it so literal? It's a very simple analogy: The U.S. liberalists invade X place, X place Fascists opposing U.S. Imperialism with support of Rural population. Which one do you think, in your opinion, is more progressive? In your opinion, do you support Saddam Hussein, Gadaffi, Assad or Osama against U.S. Imperialism?
Something I pulled out of my ass, but the analogy brings up a great point. Would you support Fascists in the name of Anti Imperialism? Would you deem them as more progressive than the Liberalist-Bourgeois U.S.?
No, it just so happens that it's impossible to reach any sort of Victory in Afghanistan with such terrain, etc. when dealing with Geurrila warfare. Even if they had 20 million soldiers with them they wouldn't make a difference.
And this was after the Muj initially formed. And, I don't think there is much evidence to back up the claim that the Soviets massacred Peasants for no fucking reason, but oh well. Stalin probably did kill 30 million because he felt like it, glorious Imperialist sources told me this so it must be true.
But the Vietcong was socially progressive and the Muj were fucking disgusting Imperialist dogs. Don't you know the Muj was just a puppet of U.S.-Chinese interests in the region? Pakistani and Saudi dogs were merely part of the pack. It was an inter imperialist war. Feel free to support one end of the Imperialist spectrum of Capital.
Seems more progressive than massacring entire villages + bringing the country back 500 years back in time. The Soviet Soldiers fucked a lot of shit up in Hungary, but at least, in the end, it was better than what it was under Fascism. Why do you pick and choose? You'll deny Soviet Crimes in Hungary but assert they were made in Afghanistan. Why? Where in "Revisionist" doctrine does it say kill a bunch of fucking people for no reason"?
ML's are such good sources who aren't full of shit. :rolleyes:
Lenin didn't ever make such a point. You can't have a proletarian basis when the majority of your makeup is from Students and Peasants. Sorry.
Of course not, but they were irrelevant and basically if they did not exist it would make no difference.
Who the fuck are you arguing with? Of course it was a puppet state. The question is, who is worse, the Muj or the puppet state? Both are to be opposed. You seem to concur with Hoxha in supporting the Muj against them.
No one in the West really knew the true face of the Muj until they actually got into power. Hoxha is not an exception. He was a stupid and naive bastard.
No, but that's different from the Soviets just invading the country for no reason. Surly a full blown puppet government wouldn't even need to call in Assistance, the Soviets would just come regardless.
It is common sense. Do you deny the Muhajadeen were growing under Amin? Do you deny many in the Afghan government thought Amin was fucking crazy as hell and wanted him deposed?
You need to get out of this fantasy land where you think people take Hoxha seriously. I don't care what he has to say. He isn't a credible source.
Those sources didn't say anything about the Bolsheviks supporting Class collaboration in Albania. Like I said, Albania didn't even have a communist party in the early 20's, so your source is not to be taken seriously.
Again, read what I said about Turkey, Afghanistan, etc. during the time. Besides, theoretically, Lenin had no illusions, National Liberation in class collaboration is to be avoided.
No, becuase you're the only one spouting out the bullshit. I'm responding to everything you've said. Even in this segment alone, you've only responded to little over half of what I actually posted.
So, the fact that you wouldn't respond to a lot of my post signifies that you either concur with them or cannot respond because you're too stupid. Which means that, in such an argument, they stand unrefuted.
Not progressive, but more progressive than the Muj. The Muj was an Imperialist proxy. One Imperialist power can be more progressive than the other, that doesn't mean their over all character is progressive.
Keep arguing with a ghost
Millions of Afghans civilians were not murdered as a direct result of Soviet Bullets. The same sources you post concur with the bullshit about the red army raping the shit out of Europe in WW2. Papa Hegel's notion of totality heavily remains relevant to this.
I wasn't denying it, I just was curious. And you haven't provided a source, and it wasn't common sense, so I'd take it your just talking out of your ass.
Boo hoo let's get all emotional. Shut the fuck up. The Soviets, if anything, would have just left hte PDPA in head of state. And, as evidence shows, people who didn't "Respect" the Soviet Union, young girls, were never shot for this. I doubt it would be any different.
Look deep into yourself, you pile of shit. Do you really think that the Soviet soldiers would systemically shoot little girls for "protesting"? Sounds a lot like the Fascist propaganda in WW2 against the SU, more shock value bullshit. And yes, fuck both sides, fucking scum bag, now you're criticizing me because I'm not supporting the Muj? Little girls who just want an education have acid thrown on them, young girls taken as property as wives, fucking rape victims forced to marry their offenders, would never exist under the Soviet Union, nothing comparable, not even such reactionary atrocities would exist under the United States of America.
Except it was the U.S. who created that shit storm, who created the Muj, and, in the end, do nothing progressive for Afghanistan.
You want to lecture me on Class struggle yet you claim no classes existed in Afghanistan and that it was just "The people" verse "Soviet Union". :laugh:
But did I say I fucked supported the Soviet Union in Afghanistan? Yes, you piece of shit, in the end, the proxy regime the U.S. would set up would be more progressive than the Muhajadeen it is fighting against. That is a fact. That doesn't mean being more progressive signifies support from Radicals, it just means what it means. The U.S. style of Imperialism isn't setting up progressive govt and modernizing country, it is go in, fuck things up, and leave it to rot to shit.
You're the one taking sides in the conflict, not me. I just don't have my head in my ass and won't ever dare consider support for the Muj.
The U.S. Backed Islamic republic of Afghanistan is a theocratic Shit hole which more or less is on the same level of being reactionary as the Muj.
I didn't fucking say the Soviet Union's occupation was objectivly progressive, I said it was more progressive than the fucking Muj, there is a difference, you know, you fuck.
Orthodox Marxism is more structurally organized in Ideas than Hoxhaism, calling it eclecticism is absurdity. I am not the embodiment of Orthodox Marxism, by the way.
orthodox Marxism historically had more of a basis outside of the internet than Hoxhaism. Without Orthodox Marxism, Marxism Leninism would not exist, and Marxian thinking would be very much shit. Hoxhaism on the other hand, is very much so just an internet cult.
that's not consistency, that's just being a dumbass.
yes, okay? I didn't ever say I supported the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, feel free to cite me evidence that I did.
Ismail the dumbass thinks more Progressive is the same as Objectivly Progressive in general. Hezbollah Islamist are more progressive than the Muj but both are fucking disgusting reactionary scum who are to be opposed.
Ismail is the one taking sides supporting the Muhajadeen, which is why he's accusing me of supporting the Soviet Union, to justify his own shitty reactionary position.
Your prediction is wrong. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
That's not propaganda from me, it's an objective historical fact.