Isn't communism too idealistic?

OTC, Dean argues thus:

They are paid higher than some other occupations, though.

I see medicare in the United States used excessively.

I stuff myself silly at Thanksgiving, much more than I need.

I take more than I absolutely need.


If my kids want to play in the sprinkler, do I get the water according to my needs? What if I want a 15 minute shower instead of a 5 minute shower? Water can certainly be used in excessive amounts. Demand being inelastic for a good does not mean that there is no possibility of excessive use.

Your assuming that the entire committee has degenerated into corruption or capitalism. And, that the majority of people would benefit from Capitalism or corruption. So, you fight a revolution to abolish corruption and capitalism, only to revert back, because it will benefit a few and make several suffer all under the guise of benefiting everyone? Since when has Capitalism ever benefited the majority?

A conscious proletariat would never allow such a thing to happen. As soon as the first one, two or so started to show signs of corruption or capitalistic policies they'd be out of office faster than an Illinois Governor.


Look, you can't be a fast food worker and maintain the same lifestyle as a Dr. We've said this before. It's due to the fact that a Dr. would contribute more to society than a FFW. You keep assuming everyone is a lazy ass who really deep down, want to be doctors, but will always take the easy way out and spend their life at working at McD's circle jerking to House, because it's easier.

The majority could benefit from corruption, depending on what exactly the councilmen decided.



I thought it was "to each according to his need". A person gets what he needs, regardless of whether he/she is a doctor or a fast food worker.

Yes, what you need to survive. The basics, education, health care, public transport etc. That doesn't necessarily mean that Dr.'s won't be compensated for the extra use they give back to society.

In capitalism, to even go to medical school you need to come from at least a middle class if not upper middle class background or else you won't have the money to pay tuition for the requisite schooling. Thus, a certain percentage of the population can't become doctors even if they wanted to because they can't afford it. Give everyone the chance for an education and anyone who wants to can become a doctor.

And on the topic of corruption, it just wouldn't be allowed to progress that far. Other communes or councils would know something's up sooner or later and move to stop it. Also, capitalism, does not and cannot benefit the majority, regardless of what a council decides. That's just how the system works. It has to have exploitation to exist.

Corruption is more likely, but it still won't benefit the majority. It's usually done out of greed and it doesn't benefit the majority now and it won't then either. Again, if someone is corrupt they'll get found out sooner or later. Always do even in capitalism. Hell, in my home state in the US 4 of our 7 past Governors have gone to jail for it. As Jon Stewart said, you'd have a better chance of staying free if you decided to flip a coin on whether or not to go to jail than if you became Governor of Illinois.

Who decides what extra benefit each occupation gets?

Pessimism is what gives idealism its name. It does not reject the lofty ideals of the idealists, but it refuses to act towards it on the basis that no one would act towards it. Whatever is "realistic" simply seems to be the low standards of what a pessimist will work towards.

What is amazing about humanity is not its reality, but its ability to constantly reshape its reality. If power corrupts, we'll abolish it. Demanding the impossible is the root of all possibility.

Not eh entire premise, but it does disable their power. Sorry, I thought you were making some kind of 'human nature says socialism is impossible' argument.


I agree. Not sure the point you are trying to make.

I don't know. In Cuba education is largely free and they have more doctors per patient than any country in the world. Many people want to be doctors, but don't have the opportunity. With free education everyone has the opportunity for a heavily sought after career as a surgeon. Are you saying people should be forced into jobs in some kind of coercive way?

Idealism-The belief that the world we live is shaped by our ideas
Materialism-The belief that the world shapes our ideas

Capitalism is idealist in the sense that it believes everyone has the potential to be the same and achieve success. But since everyone comes from different material conditions this obviously is not the case. Communism/Socialism recognizes these differences and wishes to correct them by maintaining an equal playing field for everyone.

I guess I need some clarification on this:

How does one determine what he contributes to the commune?


I suppose the overall question is, what if you do not have enough people willing and able to fill a role that needs to be filled?

You are the third person to mention Idealism/Materalism, but it doesn't really answer any of my questions. Mainly, how is ability and need assigned or regulated?

How about the full quote btw?
"In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and with it also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished, after labor has become not only a livelihood but life's prime want, after the productive forces have increased with the all-round development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly--only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois law be left behind in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!"

You are reading way, way, way, way, way too far into a slogan.

Seems like a very big part of every day life, slogan or not...

Big whoop

Than you're a sociopath

Good job bro, it's not like you caused famine because of it. If you almost ate everything people would have beat you up

What kind of asshole are you? No one does that.


Idiot. You are garunteed everything you need, that's a garuntee, and all other luxuries will be given to you. Are you a proletariat? Do you do such things today? Yes? Than you will be able to do so under socialism.. Of course you'll be able to take extra showers and play in the sprinkler. We can do that now..

That's like a Fuedal peasant asking: "Will I be able to have an extra piece O' chicken in this market societay?

Yes, that's garunteed. But doctors would recieve more luxuries than a fast food workers, probably bigger TV's and such.

I'm sick of this Idealist nonsense, communism isn't some utopian society we are dreaming about. For christs sake, it's just a movement that will abolish capitalism, for us, whatever Ideas they have, society will adjust itself too. I don't know if it will work and I don't know what it will look like. But I know there is something better than this shit we have now.

okay here is how it is decided:

can you work (yes) (no)
If yes here's a bunch of jobs, please pick one

do you need anything (yes)(no)
If yes list here:

There are tons of ways this could be organized with different positive and negative aspects. Ultimately it'll be up to the members of a communist society what work needs to be done, how to get it done, how to distribute things, etc. etc. etc.

Because people (not myself) overuse medicare?



I didn't eat almost all of it. I ate more than I needed, though.

Taking any coffee is technically taking more than I need. But if I have some left over (which has happened before) then I took more than I "needed".



I can turn on every faucet in my house and leave them running 24/7 now. So I could do that under communism?

What Ideology is not Idealistic Communism is the wave of the future it is the only Ideology that can move humanity forward to a bright and radiant future.