Since Religion is a tool of the ruling class to keep the working class down and oppre

Since Religion is a tool of the ruling class to keep the working class down and oppressed what about the fact that in pre class societies societies where people lived in tribes without classes these societies still had religion right so my question is did religion come from the ruling class ? Im posting this thread because I read this article.

Religion -- Tool of Bosses, Enemy of Workers

1. Religion -- Tool of Bosses, Enemy of Workers
2. Religion Is Ruling Class Ideology
3. "How Can You Raise Children Without a Religion?"
4. Idealism vs. Materialism
5. Class Struggle and the Struggle of Ideas
6. Materialism Suppressed
7. Origins of Religion -- in Class Society
8. The Agricultural Revolution
9. Class Ideologies
10. Religion Provides Divine Sanction for Ruling Class
11. Greece
12. The Social and Economic Basis of the Origin of Monotheism
13. The Hebrew God
14. Christianity: A Brief Outline
15. Religions of Imperialism
16. Uses of Religion by the Roman Ruling Class
17. Roman Rulers Adopt Christianity
18. Orthodoxy
19. Progressive Aspects of Christianity for its Time
20. Heresy
21. Why Communists Must Fight Religion

http://www.plp.org/display/Search?se...duleId=5206563

I think you need to make a distinction between institutionalised religion, spirituality and personal belief.

I didn't read the article, but Marxists, as well as progressives and leftists generally should know that organized religion and mysticism/the occult/shamanism differ greatly from each other. The former deploys a huge bureaucratic hierarchy of religious authorities which are either directly in control of the state or are appendages of the state which owe their privileged positions in society to the state - thus the story of organized religion is the story of the state machine taking one of the oldest mystery-beliefs of human existence - life, death and rebirth - and using it for coercive purposes (apparently not hard to do). I believe it is "not hard to do" because there is a kernel of truth to the mystery-belief of the life/death/rebirth cycle that organized religion hi-jacked from shamanism and holds out over the people like a carrot on a stick.

When people talk about religion it is hard to know if they mean the coercive apparatuses of Churches and Authorities or if they are talking about personal spirituality, enlightenment and gnosis - most of the time there is not even an attempt made at differentiation and the two are just haphazardly lumped together...

Irrationalism in general is also a tool for bosses.
Religion predates class societies, but the organized and institutionalized exploitation of people's irrationality and faith skyrocketed in them.

It could have been invented by primordial "classy" societies (the soon-to-be-shamans figuring out that spewing crap about thunder and eclipses gives them a position of power,more food,respect etc), but i think that sheer ignorance,fear,pattern seeking and lack of better explanations gave birth to religion's ancestors.

Whichever the case, it's only speculation.What matters now is that irrationality is present,and we have to root it out.

I believe it was Engels himself in Origin of the Family that said that the authority of the primitive tribal chief or shaman was not based on coercion but on respect and the esteem held by the medicine man by the community. I am not sure if these stories about thunder and eclipses had no meaningful or intelligent or positive impact on the community they would have not esteemed him so much and probably would have driven him out of the group as a found fraud. Does the medicine man in South America who is preparing Ayahuasca for some initiates think of political power in the tribe or rather the spiritual guidance and wellbeing of his tribe? I guess atheism is primarily a cynical worldview so the former notion is held.

Atheism is a presumptuous idea that hasn't been proven accurate, correct so I reject it! There have been progressive theologians throughout history. :cool:

Organized religion is a product of class societies, not necessarily a conscious "plot" by the ruling class (though in more developed class societies it is almost always shaped into a tool to bolster ruling class ideology... for this reason, the way religion acts in society often changes as the ruling class of society changes... the reformation coming alongside the rise of the capitalist class is a prime example).

The basic reason is that organized religion (with some kind of set theology and "priest" or whatnot) requires a surplus. In an egalitarian band, everyone who is able participates in production on some level so there's no room in society for religious officials or a hierarchical spiritual organization of the band. It only as some degree of surplus production become reliable that there can be people who do not produce for themselves or the rest of the band but perform some other regular function while other people provide for their basic necessities.

So in a really general example, as a group of people settle and become agricultural they gain ability to produce a surplus, but they need to store grain now and plan crops and so on. It might be in the whole communities interest to have one person whose main duty is to keep track of food stocks or so on. Over time, this social position allows or necessitates written records of supplies and so the people who hold this position are more and more removed from practical production and become specialized. Since they are in charge of stocks of food but don't produce maybe they develop rituals they claim results in better harvests, maybe they use spiritual or mystical explanations to justify their position in society.

But again, this is a massive simplification IMO and there probably isn't a formula other than as class distinctions begin to occur, there tends to be a separation of physical and mental labor and those who do not do the practical and material labor tend to promote the central importance of their mental labor. In other words, the big man in an agricultural society who controls surplus but can't create it, flatters his own position by creating a belief system that puts his labor (his ability to read or commune with spiritual forces) is more important to the production of crops and the health of livestock than the laborers who actually work the fields and care for the animals.

Maybe I am getting off topic a little bit but...


Pre-class religion is, much as religion is today (to steal a term) a God of the Gaps.

Lets take for example (mind you this isn't pre-class, but it proves my point) Greek mythology (this applies to modern christian mythology as well), people didn't understand why there were lightning storms. "This bright, flashy stuff from the sky is SO LOUD! And I saw Frankicus get hit by it and by golly, he died! This must be the anger of a god!"

And that was upheld until we could understand the natural phenomenom. Same for flat eart, same for "6000 year old" earth, same for why people got sick.

The fact of the matter is, that people who are ignorant will attribute ANYTHING to some higher power, until it can be explained in a scientific way...and even then they are reluctant to embrace it.

I can't post videos on here (Says I don't have enough posts...but I don't think it is accurately counting my posts..but whatever) so look up ZOMGitsCriss on Youtube and look at her video "Atheists are Wrong and Evil". Her accent is a little difficult (She is Romanian), but most definately a must watch for both Atheists and Theists who debate Atheists...mostly because I am tired of hearing the same bullshit arguements.:cool:

Why would this not lead to animism? That is to say, if that's your story, then you're quite clearly missing out a step...

I think religion is a tool of the capitalist class.

Religion is a grand social work of art designed to allow people to personify certain metaphysical beliefs.

Anything like this can be used or abused by a ruling class for propagandistic purposes, as these metaphysical beliefs become associated with dogmatic axioms.