When Will the "Revolution" Happen in the USA?

When do you think the Revolution will happen in the USA. My Answer: Never and I'm willing to bet on it.

No state exists forever. It will happens and that is inevitable. Only time will tell.

I see no reason why it wont happen, seeing as the working class is international, but to say excactly when is ridiculous, we don't hold magical skills allowing us to look into the future.

Doesn't that mean that the communist state after the Revolution will fall also? ;)

Except communist state is a contradiction in terms.

Do your homework.

Tommorow, keep it on the DL.

Alright, ideal, speculative, communism is a "post-state" but do you think this society, system will fall or at least evolve something radically different?

I don't see what it could evolve into. We have to guard agaisnt counter-revolution obviously. But the abolition of class is the end of class conflict and class conflict has been the main force for social change throughout history. Communism is classlessness so I don't see how it could change unless there was a reaction.

:mellow:

Not taking you bet. Or rather the worldwide revolution already happened--lots of countries ventured toward Communism--they threatened to take over the world and then in a flash they were gone.

All over, the world grew up. Communism is now like the The Raj, the Plymoth, the Varsity Rag--all yesterday's news. Communism at its best was a happy thought of the innocent and the hopeful. Nothing wrong with that.

But time moves on.

This is such a simplistic analysis of history but I'd expect that from you, you have consistently proven you are not willing to learn on this board, instead you just repeat the same mindless mantra about how we have to move on.

Move on to what? Have classes suddenly disappeared? Have all the communists suddenly disappeared? Is capitalism not destroying the world anymore?

I expect you to come back with more empty shit of the sorts that politicians or worse the fucking Pope puts out, loads of words but with little meaning not backed up in action.

I don't know when it will happen, but if things continue at the present pace, it won’t be in my lifetime. I must say that I disagree to an extent with those here who suggest that "the revolution is inevitable". I think, not necessarily in these particular cases, but in many cases, such an 'inevitability' argument serves as a scapegoat or a way to avoid any introspection or consideration of what needs to be done if a revolution is to occur. I think we can all agree that the American revolutionary Left is in dismal shape, so to me, the suggestion that ‘it doesn’t matter, revolution is inevitable’ just feels like a very far cry from the reality ‘on the ground’ (as its said). I think a very serious and widespread conversation needs to begin occurring about ditching the old figureheads and idols (in image, not necessarily in theory) and experimenting with new modes of propaganda and consciousness-raising. We need to be creative. If the Left continues to allow itself to be weighed down by the imagery of old idols and titles that the broader proletariat is hostile to, we are only hurting our own cause. It is high time we try something new, or else the revolution to the American left will be much like the second coming to the Christian fundamentalists – some ridiculous ancient mythology that speaks of “better times” which we use to comfort ourselves when things are not going our way, instead of actively seeking out ways to improve the situation in the present.

YES!

YES!

That's a matter of opinion.

HLVS--look around; there is a NEW Capitalist's class that is undistinguishable from the working class. We Bourgeoise look more and more like workers and the workers try more and more to act like the Bourgeoise. Ever go to a factory's parking lot? Can you see the owner's car? Can you see the workers' car? The worker's nowadays have better cars than the owner. Always. I drive a Jeep--but there are plenty of BMW's in my parking lot. Who's the Bourgeoise?

You want to be us and we want to be you.

We are all one.

Propaganda? I distrust that word a lot, as it implies deception and/or outright lying to encourage a political movements. You believe what you say are rights-then do so, just keep stating the facts to the working class. No need for false or deceptive propaganda.

I was using it in its original sense, not in the sense of false information used to deceive people.

prop·a·gan·dahttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (prŏp'ə-gān'də)
n.

1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause

I still know loads of people who sell their labour to an employing class.

I don't think it is but thats another argument.


This is a board for communists so clearly we havent disappeared.

I got sacked form my job not long ago because the owners of the company wanted to make more money. There was very little I could do about this.

Yes, I'm sure the naked slum dwelling Nigerian children drinking water filled with their own shit whose parents work in factories for multi-national companies in 16 hour shifts look very similar to yourself and Bill Gates.

Do you honestly expect me to take this seriously? So I'm meant to go to a ficticious car park, see how nice some workers car is, see its better than a ficticious bosses car and suddenly capitalism is wonderful and working and class has been destroyed? Once more, do you think the Nigerian factory workers have nice cars than their bosses when 75% of their money goes into paying the rent for their crumbling house?

That is such an absolutely fucking scandalous argument I feel insulted you'd make it. I had to fucking walk to work everyday and I lost my job like that. I wonder how the CEO got around, Tom.

So why did me and laods of my mates get the chop in order to boost the profit of the company whilst the people on the board make millions? Why is it that working class people get recruited to the army to go murder other working class people whilst the people benefiting from the wars don't lift a finger? Why is it that the majority of some female employees in Nike factories in East Asia are raped by the foremen and the bosses refuse to deal with this, at times actively encouraging it?

If we're all one, why does Adidas's CEO take home millions of dollars a year whilst the average wage for one of the 12 year old worker's he employs can expect to earn the equivalent of 50p a day?

If we're all one, why is it that there are delapidated northern towns full of broken communities? Why did Thatcher break the miner's strike? Why was Greece in flames throughout the winter?

We are all one, thats is the most absolutelty ridiculous and moronic thing I have ever heard, you have reached new depths of patheticness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft...s/viewpost.gif
Have classes suddenly disappeared?
YES! Quote:
Have all the communists suddenly disappeared?
YES! Quote:
Is capitalism not destroying the world anymore?
That's a matter of opinion. Quote:
I expect you to come back with more empty shit of the sorts that politicians or worse the fucking Pope puts out, loads of words but with little meaning not backed up in action.
HLVS--look around; there is a NEW Capitalist's class that is undistinguishable from the working class. We Bourgeoise look more and more like workers and the workers try more and more to act like the Bourgeoise. Ever go to a factory's parking lot? Can you see the owner's car? Can you see the workers' car? The worker's nowadays have better cars than the owner. Always. You want to be us and we want to be you.

It is hard to say, could be a very long time. Or it could be sooner. The thing that strikes me is how far behind much of the rest of the Western World America is in terms of political and social progress. Democratic reforms and types of social welfare taken for granted most places were never implemented in America. In a way that makes it almost like France before the revolution there, lagging behind comparable countries in terms of political development and as a result it was the first to go.

That is no guarantee the same thing will happen in America. There is a lot of built in reaction there and people tend to be more nationalistic which makes class consciousness harder, so it could be that it won't change until developments in the rest of the world make it necessary, but time will change.

One thing is for sure, nothing stays the same forever, the status quo cannot remain.

It will happen when you decide to stop waiting on mass movements and go live like the revolution is here.

Sorry, there's something called capitalism standing in my way.

When will you stop?

Capitalism sucks but cant stop you from squatting, starting a co-op, creating situations where you can truly experience freedom at it's purest forms.

Say what you want about means of production but I could honestly care less about it, could bomb a quarter of the factories and I'd be content. It all comes down to freedom, anything that takes away from that emphesis is superfluous.