The Douche

I didn't mean they were tools to teach how to organise. But the revolutionary organisation I talk of isn't like a trade union today, whose stated goal is to bargain with the bosses, it is self organised and based in direct action with the goal being revolution.

What I'm trying to say is think we're getting stuck on semantics. What organisational model do you envisage in a period of high class consciousness.

I have read the Bonano leaflet and I identify with his ideas. I think my idea of tactics would be similar to yours. What is your objection to working within unions; working class organisations. I don't see today's established unions (even the IWW) of possessing revolutionary potential they are merely bases for agitation and workplace organisation for which later, in a time of high class consciousness the revolutionary union will develop. The structure of this union is often lumped in with all unions when it is stated that "unions are an instrument of the state to consolidate class rule through concessions". Definitely this analysis is valid but the structure of the revolutionary union is not the same (of course in my Anarcho-Syndicalist theories).

My intuition wins again!

Nothing to be ashamed of, though. His shit is solid, especially the remake of "I Ran" (by Flock of Seagulls) he did with Slim Thug

Yeah, check this out if you haven't heard it already.

If I guessed that you sort of look like Yelawolf, how horrifically wrong would I be?

I don't think social manipulation will be needed; nobody likes stinky bags of trash on their street or overflowing sewers, and with money out of the question some kind of social contract has to develop. It's also why progressive anti-capitalist politics is important. We need to do anything we can to foster more humanistic attitudes.

Well, mining is just an example, but I think one could have picked almost any sort of activity to illustrate the point. My instinct is to consider the practical consequences of an idea first.

Regarding alienation: Marx's conclusion, to my knowledge, wasn't "abolish civilisation" it was "abolish capitalism". My reading of Marx is that alienation is a consequence of labour not being in control of it's own destiny; while most people have a natural desire to perform purposeful activity, that desire is manipulated into a pursuit of money-grubbing "careers" or suborned by the need to grab any wage one can stomach in order to keep off the streets.

If you don't want to live like it's 2000BC, how can you be against mining? Even pre-industrial societies mined for material. Hell, mining is pretty much as old as civilisation, so a world without mining would go back further than 2000BC.

Also, mining in West Virginia is pretty bad even by capitalist standards - this is the state that allows people's water sources to be contaminated with all sorts of crap. I think it's dishonest to use the worst fuckups of capitalism as an argument against similar industrial activities but with different goals (i.e., not profit).

I apologize for what i said in the "why the hatred for primitivists?" thread, i wasn't fully bright when i said that. Sorry.