Brosa Luxemburg

Well, like I've said, I haven't read much. Other authors besides Pannekoek that are good? Paul Mattick seems legit to me.

Well from what I've read so far,and I haven't read much,council communism basically advocates the organizational form of the state/production being in worker's councils(Such as the ones that popped up in Italy, Germany, and Russia during and after WWI). It opposes such things as the "vanguard party" and democratic centralism, which I like.

The position on unions is kind of iffy with me, I'm reading Pannekoek and he seems pretty harsh on unions. I can totally understand that, it's pretty obvious that they can indeed just recreate the realities of capitalism within them and even help prop capitalism up(Which I guess happened then and now) but I think unions have in the past shown that they can hold great revolutionary potential. I've never held any belief in elections really. I guess they can be used to put the name out there during the election cycle like the PSL is doing(Putting up a runner for the presidency who is not even constitutionally eligible to be president).But beyond that?

Most people don't really understand vanguardism. Lenin didn't create it, but the kind Lenin proposed was different from what Marx said it was. The Marxist definition of the vanguard is technically all class conscious workers who are willing to be part of the communist movement.

What Lenin proposed was an elitist party made up of only the most dedicated and militant. Marx clearly says the vanguard shouldn't be apart form the masses, and the communist party should not be apart from the masses. I think it wasn't a bad idea for Russia, but that it has no place in the industrialized world.

I agree with Lenin's organization model and the need for a socialist vanguard to organize and spread consciousness among the working class.

Marxist and Leninist, but not Marxist-Leninist. Beyond that I don't care to define myself.

I'm pretty much debating myself what I am. I'm starting to lean towards the idea of council communism but still not sure what my position is when it comes to the party. Are there even any council communist organizations in the U.S.?

Yeah i was thinking and i thought if a party is needed to lead or workers can do it without one. But we strive for an stateless society in the end so there will be no party anyway so we must trust the workers to be capable themselves if we think that a stateless society can work. Than i made a thread in the ML group asking if a party being led by a workers council is ok with ML. I didnt get a clear answer only opinions. Anyway whether it is just councils or a party being led by the council its the same thing just with a different name cause its worker councils leading the whole state towards communism in both cases so yea.

Alright, I get what you're saying. I just don't think that the conditions in Russia in 1917 that may have justified the use of a vanguard party really exist anywhere in the world today.