Stranger Than Paradise

Bakunin-Kropotkin?Weirdly i dont seem to remember you still.
I prefer united down there, but thats not my team.My team is OMONOIA, globally and internationally

Whats your old nickname? :s You aren an arsenal fan?
Anw, wanna participate here ?

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/p...Daveavatar.jpg

Here it is^^

A belated thanks. (hadn't checked my profile in a bit, adjusting to the CC and all.)

I just don't think that centralization is necessarily a problem or something to be avoided (I certainly wouldn't reject to decentralization however). Also I don't think simply centralization is a defining quality of a state. A decentralized, federated state is still a state.

btw i shot you a friend request. I appreciate the interesting discussion and it's been nice to get some clarification on parts of anarchism I was unsure about.

I disagree slightly. I think working class power must in some instances be carried out with a degree of centralization, with regards to international economic planning, military strategy, excluding bourgeois elements from power, etc. And I'll ask again cuz' i think it's really important to be on the same page here, what exactly do you mean by centralization?

btw I need to get some work done (and go to sleep) so i'll have to postpone the rest of the convo until tomorrow. I appreciate the good discussion though.

When you guys talk about centralization and decentralization, what exactly do you mean? With regards to the state I don't think decentralization/centralization, in terms of how power is exerted, is necessarily important. A bourgeois state which is highly decentralized, allowing autonomy to local organs of government (police, administrative bodies, courts, etc), is still oppressive and it's still a state, so I don't think the definition of a state is simply based on centralization. With regards to a workers state I think the emphasis should be on working class power and the transformation of production towards need and the abolition of wage labor, not simply local control of administrative bodies.

keep in mind I don't want to generalize here. I don't really have anything against anarchists I just disagree with them on some stuff.

My major problems with anarchism are its imo simplistic understanding of the state, its tendency to frame revolution based on "justice" rather than class power (I'm thinking here specifically of the debate between Chomsky and Foucault), and its fetishism of decentralization. I just think these are some things anarchism has to root out.

As for the relationship between my ideology (luxemburgism/left communism with some sympathy for trotskyism) and anarchism there are some similarities. I tend to agree with anarchists that workers must organize into new democratic organs outside of the existing state structure (which I think includes unions and parties). This could be factory committees, worker councils, soviets, etc. I do have some other sympathies with anarchism (I used to identify as an anarchist actually) but I'm running out of space to list them.

I'm honestly not interested in "who started it", and trust me i'm not too fond of stalin fanboys eitiher. I just now kind of see why anarchism gets such a bad rap, with regards to them being a bunch of whiny liberals lacking any meaningful social or historical analysis. Now keep in mind I don't think that's actually true, I just understand why people would draw that conclusion given the ideology and actions of some anarchists.

i'm not trying to generalize anarchists, just to be clear.

Thanks a lot man
For me there was something very special about discovering Persona. My state of mind, the questions I was asking, and really getting to grips with psychoanalysis for the first time, made it leave a very strong impression.
I really appreciate the recommendation though. I'll check out that film when I have the time.